Did Roy Jones start losing at LHW when his competition stepped up?

bailey lol what a troll!!! but even worse than most trolls he posts novels full of biased nonsense for every bloody post! Dude needs to learn how to compress his thoughts


everyone knows the weight drop after ruiz is what killed Jones and he was arguably past it by that point already, on top of that he was less motivated having nothing to prove since he conquered it all already and won a title at heavyweight.

 

blah blah blah translation= I do not like blacks....My name is Gander Tasco and due to my hatred of PBF stemming from my unhealthy obsession with Pac I am now forced to hate on and discredit every slick/skilled black fighter.

 

Hilarious. It's like this Royal. Me and you are boys who grew up together, and in our prime, partying, boning chicks in college, come home, same ****. You now have a family, we're still cool watching our kids grow up and that side line dude you always asked to party with you who didn't want to chill all of a sudden wants to party like a rock star. You're too old to party. If you didn't party then you missed it lmfao. In these guys cases, if you weren't watching Roy Jones then, you can't lie to those who did, lmfao.

 

deal


wordlife these guys started watching boxing post 2000, they don't know **** about Roy!

 

:roflatsch at all these desperate Rojos sweeping Jones' deplorable drug cheating under the carpet. :dead

As Professor I C Chins would say "They are absolute ****ing disgraces."

 

For the posters who think that the weight loss was an excuse.

If you watch the build up to Jones -Ruiz, a documentary called The sweet science (on youtube) he goes upto around 200 pounds. After The Ruiz fight his advisor Murad Muhammad tried to get him a Tyson fight. Everyone wanted it, and Roy spoke with Mike and they had tremendous respect for each other. Mike said to him that if the fight got signed, he was going to bad mouth him, purely to hype the fight, and Roy had no problems with that at all. Shelly Finkle was up for it, but Showtime blocked it due to a contractual dispute.

This left Roy with no where to go. His options were now limited. Tarver was constantly in his ear trying to goad him into a fight. He even crashed the Ruiz press conference. Eventually Roy got sick of it, and Tarver got what he wanted. Tarver wanted the fight as soon as possible. Roy had around 20 pounds of muscle to lose, give or take a few pounds. He took 6 weeks off after Ruiz and late April all he did was run. He ran and ran like Forrest Gump to get the weight off.

Now in the build up to Ruiz, he hired Mackie Shiltstone to help with the weight gain. Mackie had helped fighters such as Micheal Spinks when he went up to Heavyweight. Now Mackie if you've seen him, is a bit crazy, but he certainly knows what he's doing. Roy should have hired him after Ruiz, to help take the weight off safely, but he didn't. He hired him for the Tarver rematch, but by then the damage had already been done. He should have taken 6 -9 months off and then had a cruiserweight fight around 185 to let his body adapt.

But he didn't. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and Alton Merkerson just had him run the muscle off. I'm no expert but it's a million miles away from going on a diet and running bodyfat off. What Roy did was highly dangerous. He burnt away all of his muscle fibres. He shredded all of the protein and the goodness that was in his body and it made him weak and dehydrated. If you don't believe me, do a little bit of research.

What amazes me on here, is all the people that are saying the weight loss was an excuse, you've got all the proof that you need.

If you want a debate, maybe you could answer the following questions, if you don't think the muscle loss was a factor.

1. Why after the eighth round against Tarver, did Roy have absolutely NOTHING left to give? Larry Merchant asked him in the dressing room how he felt before the fight, and asked him to give a score out of ten. Roy looked tired and gave a score of 7. After the fight Larry interviewed him again. He asked him how the fight went and asked him again how he felt, and how the weight had affected him. Roy said, it was the hardest thing he's ever done in his career, and he never thought it'd be as hard as it was. If that had've been a 15 round fight, he'd have never have gotten through it.

2. Somebody explain to me, how Glencoffe Johnson not only knocked him out, but won every one of the 9 rounds before he knocked him out? Now Glenn is capable of knocking anyone out if he catches them right, just like any other fighter, but he won every single round and Roy took more shots that night than he's ever taken. There's no other logical explination as far as I can see. Roy's reflexes, speed, timing and his legs were gone. It was like watching a robot.

3. If it wasn't the weight loss, why did the ringside doctor's say, he shouldn't have been near a boxing ring becuase he was completely dehydrated. That's why he was out cold for minutes. He was ill going into the fight.

4. Would Glencoffe Johnson have beaten Roy pre-ruiz? The answer is of course no. I'm a fan of Johnson's, but pre Ruiz, Glen has virtually no chance of beating him, let alone winning 9 rounds. That is my honest opinion.

If you're not a fan of Roy's and you have no symphathy, then fine. That's ok. But the reason he got knocked out By Tarver and Johnson is the weight loss. It wasn't because he stepped up, because Glen Johnson wasn't a step up. After he knocked out Roy, he lost to Clinton Woods etc. His downfall was the dramatic weight loss and the fact that he was 35 with 50 fights.

Please feel free to debate.

regards, Loudon.

 

Yes, you're so ****ing dense you're still denying the clear statements which say HBO withdrew from the fight, and Jones' promoter canceled it. Rocchigianni then took it to court and won :hi:.

Here's another;

[url]http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,44818,00.html[/url]

And quoting Tim Smith is an epic fail. He knows even less about this sport that you do.

 

[url]http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/fw10899.htm[/url]

"According to insiders, HBO definitely did not express any interest in making Jones-Rocchigiani. From a legal standpoint, Jones-Rocchigiani would have conflicted with HBO's annual budget and thus was scratched. Following a financial breakdown of all incoming proceeds generated from the net revenues from all parties involved in making the deal Rocchigiani would have received a guaranteed $1.5 million. Multiply that by $1.8 which is the value of the German Duetch Mark in Germany to the single U.S. dollar - Rocchigiani would have brought home a pretty nice payday. That's a hell of a lot more than Jones would have received ($1 million) - Not including deductions!
There is no way Jones settles for less money fighting an opponent that anyone here in America knows anything about."

:hi:

 

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the reply mate. You boxed? At what level? That's fantastic! I've never boxed mate. Never thrown a leaping left uppercut in my life ha! My parents wouldn't let me. I'm 32 and I'm from Sheffield. I could have walked into Brendan Ingle's gym whenever I wanted to aswell. When he first came over to England from Ireland in the 60's, he lived with my Aunty and Uncle for a while, and they looked after him. He never forgot their hospitality and they remained close until my Aunty and Uncle had passed.

I'm obviously not suggesting that I could have been a fighter or anything, but I know I could have gone in the gym at any point and I would have been welcomed. I've been obsessed with boxing ever since I was 7 years old, after I'd seen the superfight between Ray and Marvin. My parents thought I'd get hurt and wouldn't let me go. When I turned 18 I thought about going, but at the time, I thought it was too late. Looking back now, it was a ridiculous decision. I could have just gone to keep fit and learn the basics and it's a big regret of mine.

I've got so much respect for anyone that has fought at any level. Back to the debate, I don't think Roy ever wanted to fight the G-Man. He definately put the fear in Roy, when Roy was younger. But if they had have fought in the mid to late 90's, I think Roy wins a pretty comfortable points decision. I also think it would be boring. I think Gerald would have been disheartened after the first 5 rounds.

If I had access to Doc Brown's Delorean and I could put any fight together, it would be Toney vs Calzaghe. The press conference and the build up would be amazing. I think James could have psyched him out. Styles make fights and this would have been incredible! A volume punching Southpaw with fast hands vs a master technition with a great defence and huge power. I honestly don't know what would have happened. I really beleive Toney could have been one of the greatest ever fighters if he'd been disciplined like Bernard.

I see either Joe winning on points in a close decision, or like you, Toney stopping him. James wouldn't have showed him an ounce of respect, and if Joe got caught up in a macho tear up in the middle of the ring, I think it would have been Lights out!

When you've got some spare time on your hands, go on youtube and watch some footage of Mike in his younger days, you'll have a treat. I watched the Watson fight a few months ago, and it was amazing. He must be one of the most underrated fighters ever!

Terms of accomplishment is really hard. It's all about opinions isn't it.

Roy for me has to be no. 1. People say he ducked a lot of fighters, but in my opinion the only name missing is Dariusz. The fight could never get made. Roy didn't want to go to Germany, and why should he have had to? and Dariusz could never agree on terms to fight in the U.S. Benn, Eubank, Collins, Calzaghe earlier, have been discussed in previous posts. Benn for example wanted the fight, and as someone on here stated, Roy wanted it, But Don King wanted a 3 fight option on Roy. They were various other reasons why most of those fights never came to fruition.

Clazaghe for example. Pre Ruiz, Joe was a nobody outside of the U.K. and he never fought In Roy's country or weight class etc. Nothing to do with high risk, low reward, he just wasn't relevant at the time. So for me Dariusz is the only ommision that should have been there. Roy was was just about untouchable at 168 and a joy to watch. He's a four weight World Champion and the first former middleweight champion to win a Heavyweight belt in 106 years.

For all those idiots that say Ruiz was handpicked and an easy win, they're wrong on both accounts. I've discussed in a previous post that Roy had talks with Evander's team prior to his 3rd fight with Ruiz. Everything was agreed verbally, and if Holy had've beaten Ruiz, Roy would have fought him. Evander lost, Roy was then offered the fight again, and he turned it down to pursue Ruiz. So, He wasn't handpicked at all.

Now as I've mentioned before, Ruiz wasn't a great fighter. We all know that. But Roy put 20 pounds of muscle on, and he had no idea how it would affect him. He was then still out weighed by a further 20 pounds. That was a huge risk to take, and given those circumstances it was a great win. If Andre Ward put on 25 pounds to fight a top ten ranked heavy, it would be a huge achievement if he won. Roy doesn't get the credit, because people want to hate on him. That was a great win.

If it was that easy, why haven't more people done it? Also, Roy's only the second fighter in the entire history of the sport, to win titles at Middleweight, Light heavyweight, upto Heavyweight and then back down to Light heavyweight to reclaim his old title. The only other fighter to have accomplished that is Bob Fitzsimmons. Also, if he'd have stopped off at Cruiserweight either before or after Ruiz, no doubt he would have been a 5 weight World Champion.

Hopkins, great fighter very disciplined and is still at the top today. I hate the guys antics, but you've got to give him a huge amount of repect. He's so dedicated. He runs 7miles per day to keep in shape. I'm not talking about when he's in camp, just on a day to day basis. He once missed his sisters wedding because he was in camp for a fight. He also counts every calorie that he eats. If James had've been that disciplined, I think he'd be considered one of the best ever. Back to Bernard, fantastic middlweight, could have gone to supper middle but passed it to go to Light heavy. He could have been a three weight World Champion. For me the only thing he has over Roy, is Longevity.

Calzaghe, great fighter and underrated. But for me never fulfilled his potential. He unified a pretty weak supper middleweight division in my opinion. In the days of Eubank, Benn, Collins, t was exciting with great fights. Today it's exciting again with the fighters that were in the super six. Sadly, for Joe, he was stuck in the middle of the two era's. His biggest wins are Lacy and Kessler. Lacy was his best perfomance, But Jeff wasn't that great. Kessler came into the Unification with two belts with wins over Mundine, Andraden Cummins and Siaca. Sky built him up to be like the terminator for the fight, and all my mates thought he was a monster coming into the ring, when in reality he hadn't done a deal. But instead of unifying a weak division, he could have moved up to light heavy and been a two weight World Champion and fought the likes of Tarver And Roy, like Woods did.

For the last five years of his career, he was constantly telling everyone that he had to kill himself in the welsh mountains, and he had to starve himself to make weight. When he did move upto to light heavy for his last two fights, he made the weight pretty comfortably. So why did he kill himself to fight guys like Manfredo, when he could have gone to 175 to have big money fights against better opposition? I don't know. Then you have to look at his famous zero. Now in my opinion, he kept his zero, not just because he was a fantastic fighter, but also because he'd never fought guys like Roy. I think too much emphasis is put on the zero.

I also don't think he beat Hopkins. For me it was quality over quantity and despite Bernard's horrible play acting I thought it was a draw. I think that would have been a fair result. But it's all about opinions. He always gets labelled as the Greatest super middle ever. If it's based on achievement then fine, But Roy was clearly the best fighter to ever fight at that weight.

Toney, one of my favourite ever fighters! But for me his career is, what could have been? Like I say, if he had the discipline of Bernard we'd be talking about him being one of the best ever, and I honestly believe that. A three weight World Champion because he was stripped of his title. Obviously he's won another Hevyweight title, but not one of the major ones. Also, the light heavy belt that he won, was vacant I believe, and not one of the major Titles. But you could say that he's a five weight World Champion. So he's nearly accomplished what Roy has, but for me, under different circumstances.

Roy was sick and tired of the criticizm he was geting for fighting so called nobodies, and had been toying with the idea of moving upto heavy for a long time. Roy Snr blocked him going up in the 90's on two occasions. So, Roy went up to shut up the haters and to create history. James on the other hand, simply couldn't keep his weight down when he was in his mid 30's. He had virtually no chance of making super middle or light heavy. So where as Roy went up to make history, James went up because he didn't have much of a choice. He didn't bulk up like Roy, he simply couldn't lose enough weight to fight at the lower weights. So for me, the circumstances are completely different.

Now maybe if James had've been disciplined, maybe he'd have moved up anyway, but we won't ever know. So I think Roy beats him on accomplishments, even though James is a 4/5 weight World Champion. So it's really hard to choose.

So based on ability, it would be,

Roy Jones
James Toney
Joe Calzaghe/Bernard Hopkins


In terms of accomplishment,

Roy Jones
Bernard Hopkins/James Toney (can't pick, James has won more belts, in more divisions, Bernard has a better resume and has longevity)
Calzaghe (great fighter, has the Zero, but could have been a two weight World Champion, and his biggest wins are Lacy and Kessler, who were good but not great, and in the first half of the fight, Joe was in a lot of trouble)

But as I say, it's all about opinions. They're all fantastic fighters, and I have a huge amount of respect for all of them.

Sorry for the long post, get back to me if you want.

Regards, Loudon.

 

he also took more punishment than any other fight.

 

Scott,
I've changed my mind. For Bernard to be still competing at the very top level is an incredible achievement. Also, He didn't have the frame to go through the weights like Roy and Toney. Realistically he can't fight above 175. Also he was never out of shape like Toney, who had to move up in weight.

So my list is,

Roy Jones
Bernard Hopkins
James Toney/Joe Cazaghe.

Regards, Loudon.

 

I will reply buddy, but work right now is manic!

I'll sit down and write a reply later, thanks for that brilliant post :good

 

Do the years of anabolic steroid abuse not tarnish Jones' legacy for you? It's ****ing shocking how you can rank steroids riddled disgraces like Jones and Toney alongside clean fighters like Hopkins and Calzaghe.

 

Alton Merkerson went to Christopher Reeve's house one day and bought a big batch of Superman Tablets for Roy to take. I can't see the problem ha!

 

You weren't watching then.