Did Roy Jones start losing at LHW when his competition stepped up?

Delusional nonsense. Imperial clearly has the mind of an infantile ******. I've surgically destroyed him in this debate. Denying it only makes you look like a bellend.

 

tell me about it. it seems they beat other boxers as well.

 

stfu noobs. I'll you school you, too.

 

Sad ..I see its more opinion that rules your logic as opposed to facts ! What a fool ..Who did Johnosn fight to get a shot at that IBF dumb ass ? One of DM's mandos who had earned his shot by taking the IBF to court ..Yeah I know DM was wrongfully stripped wahhh ! Again dummy the title was taken from him for refusing to fight his MANDOs !! This is why he stayed his ass in Germany ,the WBO let him do what ever the **** he wanted ! You don't school a ****ing thing ! I already proved that not every lineal title was won the ring ,It can be AWARDED you slow child !!

And dumb ass Spinks unified the titles who were the belt holders then and how did Hill become lineal ? Who had the title before ? Man you really are slow ..Did you ride the short bus to school ! Let me guess Hill and Maske unified someone elses belts


Jack Root (1903)
George Gardner (1903)
Bob Fitzsimmons (1903-1905)
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien (1905, never defended)
*Jack Dillon (1914-1916)
Battling Levinsky (1916-1920)
Georges Carpentier (1920-1922)
Battling Siki (1922-1923)
Mike McTigue (1923-1925)
Paul Berlenbach (1925-1926)
Jack Delaney (1926-1927, never defended)

Once again genius tell me how the two items in bold never defened the belt and how could someone else could have won that title if it was never defended ? Funny you cry about Dm' stripping but don't use the same logic and apply it to the lineal title ..Its all about sanctioning bodies ..And here is another lesson for you :


Linear, or lineal mean in line or direct decented. Once a fighter doesnt lose the title in the ring then the line is broken and therefore someone has to be awared the titles. Some Titles have set dormant for several years:

Cruiserweight Vacant . Last lineal champ Evander Holyfield 1988

Super-middleweight Vacant . Bruno Girard 2000

Lightweight Vacant . Pernell Whitaker 1992
.
Once again Slow Joe :
Sooner or later someone will be AWARDED those titles and they don't even have to be the best in the divsion but its all about Lineal right atsch****ing joke ! Owned schooled and sent to your room with no dinner ! Beat it kid !

 

No, it isn't. Nothing can ever be 100% concrete in boxing, but what I've explained is infinitanely more accurate than the ignorant gibberish you've posted. Johnson boxed no one to get a shot at a paper title picked up by Guthrie, which rightfully belonged to DM.

Guthrie earned his title shot by taking the IBF to court? You absolute spastic. Guthrie didn't earn ****. He'd beaten 23 stuffs. Weeks after DM won the title against Hill, a court ordered DM to box Guthrie within 30 ****in days, which was obviously impossible. Pure bull**** politics to get him stripped.

Completely schooled again.

No, you haven't. I've proved that every Lineal title was won by the champion either losing his title in the ring, or the top two contenders/belt holders boxing for the vacant title after the champ either retires or vacates and leaves the divison.

SCHOOLED YET AGAIN

No, you ride the short bus every day. ****, you probably drive it yourself you inbred cretin. I've already explained this, you thick ****ing delusional hypocritical waste of space.

I've already ****ing explained it clearly, you ****ing braindead piece of ****. They never defended it because they left the division and went for the heavyweight title, or retired. DM was WRONGFULLY stripped of the WBA title without good reason, and stripped of the IBF because he was ordered to defend his newly won title within 30 days. Impossible. He still remain Lineal/WBO champion, and was the rightful WBA/IBF champion. I've used the EXACT same ****ing logic, only you are too ****ing stupid to understand it. You complete ****ing mongoloid.

That's exactly what I've explained to you 10 times, you thick *******. You're using this against your own ****ing argument.

This is nonsensical. Now you're just confusing yourself. To become Lineal champion you have to win it in the ring against the champion, unless the champion leaves the division or retires, then the clear top two contenders will box for the vacant title. In a few cases there's been a mini tournament to establish the champion. You STILL don't even understand these simple facts. Mouth breathing ******.

Imperial1 = *****-slapped all over esb again.

 

You and Imperial had a decent bout, both exchanged some heavy blows such as:-

but while you been talking punch drunk wandering around ESB with jelly legs on ***** street, Imperial showed composure and killer instinct, and a decent chin in finishing you off brutally with concrete evidence.

I think it was better for me to cut out that utter crap about you moaning like a sore loser in regards to your crushing defeat by the hands of Imperial, to proceed on to the main focal point here about linear equations.

I think you are aware when it comes to boxing ranking of the past, it was a lot more clearer back then about who the division king is than it is today. Before there was 1 boxing organisation that mattered, today we have WBA, WBC, WBO, NBA, FUK, YOU, IBO, IBA, IBF, The Ring and many others so there appears more dispute on who the division king is.

Me as a boxing wise man slash trapstar aka The most Feared man on ESB, gathers all the information from watching the fights, elaborating on respected boxing opinions aswell as inspecting various boxing ranking systems to come to my own conclusion on who I think is the division king.

Ricardo Torres was ranked #1 in one of the organisation's rankings, check 2:40 of the following video.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_5KiSHUCRU[/ame]

Thats why I dont like to get brainwashed into these ranks and I am usually amongst the majority consensus when it comes to rank.

Its good you dont accept Cleverly as the division king, because the kind of **** that has been coming out of your mouth, which 12 rolls of toilet tissue cant clean, I wouldnt have been surprised if you thought that.

So according to you this is your history on the lineage of the LHW division king.

Virgill Hill (Mid 90's)
DM (June 1997 - Oct 2003)
Gonzales (Oct 2003 - Jan 2004)
Erdei (Jan 2004 - Jan 2009)

Then you say some complete bull****:-

When did Dawson become the division king? Who did Dawson beat to become the division king? :-(

Also, when Gonzales beat DM, you considered Gonzales as the main man in the division ahead of RJJ?

When Erdei beat Gonzales and defended his WBO did you consider Erdei as the main man ahead of RJJ, Tarver, Johnson, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Pascal, Dawson....

You see this linear stuff is bull****. Calzaghe is one fighter I dont usually big up, but he IMO was at one point in his career the division king when he beat Hopkin's, and was IMO more respected than Erdei.

When Calzaghe was at SMW, there was talk of him to fight the best at LHW, not fight Erdei or Gonzales, they were discussing a potential bout with RJJ Jr who was the main man.

Go and watch boxing son.

I agree, Hill was beaten by DM, and then you had a situation where DM and RJJ did not get in the ring with one another due to whatever reason, similar to a Calzaghe Ottke situation. Although DM was considered the lineal champ, RJJ dominated the division and was considered the main man by the majority of organisations, belts, fans, and independent ranking systems.

If you ask me who was the division king, I would say RJJ just like everybody else.

I never said that it is on boxrec, i stated some man need to lay off boxrec while others need to jump of this lineage bull****.

 

Both of you shouldnt be talking here. If you aint conditioned to last the full 15 rounds in the ESB square circle then just STFU and stick to three rounders against the likes of Lance_Uppercut and Knockout artist.

 

My evidence proved what I've been saying, and proved him completely wrong, as well as exposing his embarrassing ignorance of the subject. I've forgotten more about boxing than Imperial1 will ever know. Using facts, logic, common sense, and most importantly, history, I've brutally and ruthlessly destroyed his argument in this thread, and handed out one of Team Elite's most devastating victories here. You're the only one who seemingly can't see it.

Ok, that's good. But be clear on what you mean by 'king'

Yeah, I watched that fight live, and the whole show was a huge embarrassment.

When the **** did I say Dawson was Lineal champion?? Pascal beat Dawson, which some claim started the new Lineage. Hopkins-Dawson II will irrefutably establish the Lineage.

They were both Lineal champion. Erdei obviously lost crediblity as champion due to his opposition.

Calzaghe wasn't Lineal champion at light heavyweight. Best? Obviously.

What? Jones was where the money was at 175lbs. Calzaghe finally cashed in after thrashing Hopkins.

There was a disgraceful conspiracy whereby HBO and The Ring tried fooling the fans with the impression that Jones was the undisputed champion with no opposition, when anyone who was following the sport knows that was a blatant lie. Jones allegedly tried to get DM's name banned from HBO broadcasts. All the historians agree that DM had the greater claim. Either way, theres no way Jones could possibly be the undisputed, Lineal champion. His only claim to the championship was the vacant WBC belt he won when Tiozzo moved up to cruiserweight.

 

Michalczewski, would be stripped by the WBA for having a WBO title belt and the IBF's top contender William Guthrie won a lawsuit requiring him to get a shot at the IBF title within 30 days. Michalczewski would quickly drop the IBF belt .


Your right I don't know **** Gutrhie never won a lawsuit ..

The title can be awarded to any fighter that unifies the title or beats the man in the division but that never makes him the man in the division as the previous post have pointed that out ! No one thought Julio Gonzalez or Erdei were the best Lt Heavies at any time in boxing ,but I know its all about lineal right ..Your arguments are fluffier than cotton !

I also pointed out some lineal titles can be dormant for yrs but for some reason you hold all your weight on a lineal title .Nice try but beaten yet again !!

 

I meant earn it in the ring you thick *******. You absolute plonker. Good grief. The IBF stripping was a ludicrous court ruling and you know it.

What? Beating 'the man' (whatever that is) doesn't make you 'the man'?

Obviously. I never claimed Erdei or Gonzalez were the best. This isn't about them, or about them being the best. Your arguments are fluffier than your grandmother's stinky dangling bucket snatch.

I also pointed out that some Lineal, undisputed title has sometimes been dormant for years. What's that got to do with anything?

This argument has long been lost for you, kid. However, I have taught you a great deal on this subject, so you may wanna thank me some time.

 

Although glass jaw gets thrown about, I have to say Joe.Boxer has a solid Heart for not giving up in his battle. But this can be dangerous.

King basically meaning, the main man, the man to beat, the topdog...

For example, Sergio Martinez is the MW division king at present.

Andre Ward is the SMW division boss, even though Lucian Bute has a claim to be the main man, Ward's resume > Bute's aswell as other factors say otherwise.

RJJ was dominating the LHW division way harder than anyone else, including DM, and everyone else around him, and therefore I considered him the main man, the division king.

The fight is something else, but that guy Ricardo Torres was actually ranked #1 SMW in the world by some organisations, showing it could easily be bull**** at time.

You mentioned Dawson, but I think you was refering to Dawson vs Pascal and not Dawson on his jack jones, so misconception cleared.

The **** you get two lineal champions?

Calzaghe had legit claim to being the main man in the LHW because on record beat Hopkins but wasnt the best at LHW because he ran away from the best fights and went for a shot jones Jr.

I will get into this later, at the moment go and watch some boxing Proxa, Brook and Hatton, then come back to school any individual that steps outta line.

 

I'm am aware of the court ruling I pointed that out to you now its a part of your arguement wow

And why did I bring up dormant titles well ,you said that the lineal title had to be won in the ring ,well technically yes but that title can be awarded to the any fighter based on ranking ..So Jones never beat a lineal champ neither did Hill ,Hill won it in a unification bout neither he or Maske beat Spinks to become the lineal champ ..The winner of that fight was awarded that title !


Oh here is something else to chew on since your always talking about how horrible the stripping of DM' titles was ,all that crap about the WBA stripping Daruisz because he wouldnt give up the WBO is just the story that Kohl and Universum and has continued telling people .

What happened is that The WBA ordered Hill to rematch DelValle, if you recall Hill won a controversial decision against him,he then faced DM and lost therefore DM was ordered to fight DelValle .He then told the WBA to go to hell so they stripped him.

And with the IBF Maske had paid William Guthrie step aside money. The IBF told Dariusz that he would have to fight Guthrie in 90 days, Universum said they were told to fight him within 30 days which was bull**** . Lets make sure all T's are crossed and all your I are dotted before you come here and spit more lies ...I think were done here :good

 

Well this discussion is about specifics.

Erdei beat Gonzalez to win the Lineal title. They weren't Lineal champion simultaneously.

This is a somewhat controversial claim, and perhaps a discussion for another day.

 

If the Lineal/world title is vacant, to crown a new champion, the top ranked boxers have to fight for it. If they all duck each other, it remains dormant/vacant. The top two (rightful) title holders met in a unifcation to start a new Lineage after Spink relinquished his title to move up to heavyweight years eariler, and Hill-DM solidified the new Lineage. (Jones had lost to Griffin by this point). Jones never even fought the #1 or #2 in the division, yet somehow he was given The Ring title.

This is an outrageous claim. Source?

The WBA stripped DM the next working day after displaying the WBO title alongside his newly won WBA title and refusing to relinquish his WBO title. If this was bs and Kohl/Universum were telling porky pies, surely the WBA would have taken exception and sued their asses?

This is a classic example of where boxing's stupid politics comes in. Yes, the initial ruling was allegedly 90 days. Hill-DM had originally been penciled in for April 19th, and Guthrie had to be given a title shot by July 19th or the IBF would be fined (god forbid). However, Hill-DM was pushed back two months to June. As a result, DM was ****ed. So, get your facts straight before you dare to question mine.

OWNED AGAIN :ass.

 

In pure stubborness, I think they do. The issue of this thread has already been sorted out by another (sane) poster, Louden. Those fellas going at it now has written down all known boxing history twice already.