Excellent post - I agree. I will add my own opinion that Shavers was a better puncher than Foreman because his straight right was, well uh, straight - whereas George's arm punches were loopy (still powerful - btu did he ever hit Ali as hard as Shavers? no). Shavers had better technique.
Who did Foreman KO that was better than anyone Shavers KO'd, except Frazier (who Shavers could arguably have stopped under the same circumstances)? The best boxers Foreman fought (Holyfield and Ali) weren't even staggered by him. Both Foreman and Shavers have limited KO credentials against top opposition; then again, is that such a reliable way to judge power? :think
I met Shavers years ago, too, LD, at Ali's old gym on Main Street in Santa Monica. I'm not exaggerating, when we shook hands, if I didn't dig my toes into the floor, he'd have lifted me off the ground...and he wasn't trying to show off.
Yes, Earnie Shavers really hit THAT hard ! I actually think he was a better puncher than Foreman. Foreman used his size and strength more, and had a prodding jab at times, and took a punch better, but I believe Shavers was a far more explosive puncher and some of his boxing repetoire was actually far superior to Foreman's. Shavers could be hurt easier, and wasn't as large. The fact that Shavers' reputation as a hard puncher is NOT based on a single instance or several KOs over "big name" opponents, and is actually based on seemingly hundreds of independent testimonies and eyewitness anecdotes, actually lends weight to the truth of his power. Shavers wasn't so brilliant as to be a winner over many top names, but many top guys he hit (cleanly or not-so-cleanly) remarked on his out-of-this-world power. In every fight I've seen of him he looks at worst heavy-handed, and at best devastatingly explosive.
Hmm... Well, Shavers has: (green) Jimmy Young (old) Jimmy Ellis Ken Norton Whereas Foreman managed: Joe Frazier Ken Norton Ron Lyle (oldish) George Chuvalo (TKO, but Chuvalo was clearly hurt in any event) Michael Moorer
I was ringside in MSG when Shavers hit Ellis with an uppercut in the first round. He dropped like wet laundry.
If you hear it from one common oponent you treat it with caution. If you hear it from three or four common oponents then you have to think that there might be something in it. If Shavers oponents had any idea how hard he hit them then he must have been one of the bigest punchers of all time.
"Foreman could punch about the same as Lyle." "He (Shavers) was the hardest hitting human being I ever met. He hit harder than Foreman and Lyle combined." -Leroy Caldwell "Earnie Shavers hit me so hard my kinfolks felt it in Africa" -Muhammad Ali Is there anybody who remembers being hit by Shavers who did NOT say Earnie was the hardest puncher they ever fought? How many of Mike Tyson's opponents have said he was the hardest hitter they ever fought? The impression I get from accounts of Tyson's opponents is that fans credit him with the most absurdly overrated punching power in HW history. (It seems as though Tyson's fans are perpetrating the myth of his power more than any of his opponents are. But with Shavers, the consensus among fellow competitors seems to be virtually unanimous.) Concerning Earnie's kayo record, it needs to be remembered that Joe Louis put together much better combinations, and that Tyson and Dempsey were much faster, while Baer had a steel chin. Foreman had enormous size, physical strength, and could take a punch. But Earnie had to do it all with his power. When Holmes states in no uncertain terms that Earnie Shavers was a much harder puncher than Mike Tyson, keep in mind that common opponents of Shavers, like Ali and Caldwell, do support Larry's contention about the supremacy of Earnie's power.
Well, His best wins were arguably against Joe Bugner, Jimmy Ellis, Ken Norton and Roy Williams, none of whom were journeyman, and all of whom were knocked out somewhat early. In addition, he had a career total of 68 knockouts in 74 wins, and the testimonies of Larry Holmes and Muhammad Ali ( two of the most durable champions in history, ) claiming that he had the hardest punch they'd ever felt. :conf
A good point, although Roy Williams was not a contender on the level of Norton or even an old Jimmy Ellis. The testimony of the three guys he hit is probably the best evidence. My point is simply that many of his knockouts come against low-tier opposition, and that similar KO records have been built recently by guys that I would never class in the same category as the true top punchers of the sport. There is no doubt that Shavers hit extremely hard, but it seems that "hardest puncher ever" is a bit of a stretch considering the other candidates.
Fair enough, I was never quite certain myself as to weather or not Earnie was #1. Frankly, I've always kind of leaned towards the notion that the hardest hitter of all time was a title that didn't necessarily have to go to one man. While Shaver's right was certainly deadly, Fighters like Frazier, Morrison and Ruddock had wicked lefts. Meanwhile, you had guys like Liston, Foreman, and Tyson, who could hit hard with both hands. You also, had guys who's power was more like a heavy sand bag taking the wind out of you, while others were like getting hit over the head with a sledge hammer. Different feeling.
Look at Shaver's records and all of the pure KO's he has. I don't think I've ever seen so many KO's one after another on any boxers record. The man left almost everyone he ever faced cold. Barely a TKO on his record.
