Did Shogun Ever Explain What Happened In The Jones Fight?

It cant. Apparently anyone who claims Shogun was anything but 100% fully fit fresh and focussed that night is nothing but a blinded ******ed Shogun nuthugger :roll:

 

Although the point you are making might not be wrong (prime Shogun beating JJ) your logic is completely ****ed up. You cannot put lists of fighters a guy has beaten against each other and from that deduce who will win. Shogun is not great off his back and JJ is ****ing awesome at putting guys on their backs. He takes people down so easy it is scary. I belive he hasa 100% Takedown record? He also has a long ass reach that means he will be no where near shoguns overhand right. JJ beats Shogun at any time in their careers IMO. Don't care if Shogun was to KO Anderson in his next fight, GSP in the fight after that and the Hendo in the one after that. If his next fight was Jones I'd back jones even if bones was fighting TUF rejects in the meantime. Styles make fights.

 

You need some serious reading comprehension. I never once said, or even suggested, that Jon Jones was the Greatest of All Time.

And this:

You mean... like Shogun? Or do you not consider him a top fighter... pick one because your logic is terrible, absolutely terrible at best.

Or are you now going to play the he wasn't in his "Prime" card now? Oh as predictable as you are stupid (at times).

Yes, Shogun beat Jackson, Nogueira and Arona and therefore he beats Jones. **** it, why even have him fight anymore? Just throw his 2004-2006 resume at his opponents.

He seems competent at some points (admittedly few and far between) but when he's being blindly stupid I tend to ignore him.

 

Going to highlight this again as many seem to be quite delusional. Shoguns my boy. But the PRIDE version is gone forever.

 

Shogun has a chance to get beat less brutally. Thats about it. People need to look at this from a biology standpoint.

Stronger, Faster, Longer, Bigger, Better training. Holy crap, yes Shogun can get lucky and maybe Jones has a glass jaw (doubt it since he laughed at Bader when he got tagged).

 

Shogun need to turn counter puncher and fight defensively. Lateral and head movement to counter the reach advantage, stay on your toes hopefully stay out of range of the TD's blast in the legs kicks and mix up the strikes with two and 3 combos of kicks and punches sacrificing setting down and thundering in the power shots and play the points game. Basically fight like Machida, but with better power and durability

Shogun has never and will never fight like this. He loves to fire away in the pocket and throw caution to the wind.

 

:bart

 

The fight was so one sided I'm not sure there should even be a rematch. It's not like Shogun Machida 1 or anything like that. If Shogun beats all the other contenders I supopose he has to get a title shot but if JJ is the champion what's the ****ing point. Watch it again, it was horrible.

 

My logic is rock-solid actually:

A guy is not a great fighter until he has beaten top opposition in top condition.

As of now, Jones has not done this.

Rua is the more proven fighter.

Therefore, to write Rua off against Jones is mere speculation, it does not have evidence to support it because Jones has never beaten a fighter anywhere near as good as a full fitness, full sharpness Shogun Rua.

Rua has beaten prime, world-class fighters (eg Rampage and Machida). Jones has not. Therefore, tipping him to blow this calibre of fighter away is speculation, its guesswork based on how good he has looked against duds like Bader.




And for your other point, "styles make fights" is the most overstated maxim and principle in all of combat sports. Styles may indeed make fights, but they do not make results. It's obviously nowhere near as simplistic as saying "fighter A has trouble with wrestlers, so back all wrestlers against him", or we'd all be millionaires already betting on fights.

"Shogun has trouble with all guys who are better wrestlers than him and have better takedowns than him" - if this was an absolute rule, then Matt Hamill and Ryan Bader would beat Shogun, and Rampage Jackson and Ricardo Arona would already have beaten him when they fought.

Styles may make fights, but they don't make results. There are many intangibles to be taken into account in every fight, these can never be overlooked just because of some glib, blanket rule such as "styles make fights".


As I say every single time this subject is brought up, I'm not saying a fully fit, fully sharp Shogun beats Bones, but I am saying he gives him a much, much better fight, simply because I've seen how **** Shogun is after surgery before. Shogun is a much more proven fighter than Jones, so to write him off completely is silly.

 

Exactly. I just don't understand this point of view at all. Did people watch that fight with their eyes closed? Did they all forget how Shogun performed coming off injury/surgery lay-offs before? nut:nut

 

I know Shogun looked lackluster against Coleman, who else did he look bad against after surgery?

 

Shogun takes time to get back to full fitness and sharpness. Look at the Machida fights, in the first one he fought a high intensity, high concentration fight for 5 rounds without tiring at all, and by the 2nd fight he was back to something approaching his best.

Then look at how exhausted he looked in a much less intense fight with old, **** Coleman. Some guys, like GSP, always come to the Octagon in the same state of readiness. Others simply don't, and the difference in them is clearly visible.

 

I dont doubt the impact of the surgeries. Really I dont think you can compare the style of Coleman and Lyoto, ones a physical presence when Machida is a counter striker, patient and likes to pick his shots

IMO He looked good in Machida 1 & 2, Chuck and Forrest 2

He looked like **** late in Forrest 1 and Coleman and of course Jones.

I dont think you can in anyway use the top three as an indication that Shogun is back to his best. He just cant cope when someone pushes the pace

 

Forrest in their first fight.

The funny thing is, Shogun had his best performance of the last five years coming almost immediately after a surgery. He had his appendix removed less than two months before the second Machida fight and also had a shredded knee that night. If he'd lost that fight, I guarantee you that the same people like Popkins, who isn't even giving Jones any credit whatsoever for dominating Shogun at this point, would have made the same excuses.

 

Yawn. Jones is an amazing prospect, and of course it takes some serious power to stop someone like Shogun, but until he beats one top fighter in top condition, I'm not going to fawn over him like so many other people are. If Shogun gets up to full fitness and sharpness, and loses to Jones, I'll give Jones all the credit in the world. That hasn't happened yet.