Did the Holyfield and Buster Mathis Jr fights reveal weakness with the Cus D'Mato Pee ka Boo Style

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by UFC2020, May 29, 2021.


  1. UFC2020

    UFC2020 Active Member Full Member

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    Holyfield in many interviews states that Tyson from a very young age was trained and taught how to fight Tall Bigger boxers who were backing away from him but the style he was taught was not effective when fighters got close to him and pushed him back.

    Even before the Holyfield fight, i found it shocking how ineffective Tyson was against Buster Mathis Jr, he must have missed a gazzilion punches and he looked very uncomfortable having to face an opponent who was getting close to his chest, pushing him back and offering him no leverage to throw his punches and upper cuts. Not sure if it was because Tyson was slow, rusty after 4 years of inactivity or because of Buster Mathis Jr's style.

    Did any opponent from 1985-88 try to fight Tyson by pushing him back? Maybe Berbick and Tubbs tried it
     
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  2. Stiches Yarn

    Stiches Yarn Active Member Full Member

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    I don't know if mike tyson used the peek a boo style when he fought Evander Holyfield and buster mathis or, perhaps, any fighter he stepped in the ring with after he fired Rooney...
    I believe Mike, who became a one shot headhunter, was looking to take Holyfield with his power and the little speed he had left, but Evander clinched and shoved Mike back, took away his offense, and began beating him up.
    Mmmmmm probably not, there wasn't during Tyson's best year with Rooney who pushed him back, mostly because 90% of them fought on the outside.
    It would have been interesting to see if witherspoon could have done it.
     
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  3. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tyson was just a head hunter in the 90s, so it's not his style that was innefective, it was him.
    90s Tyson no longer had that amazing defense, the same accuracy and composure
     
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  4. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, any style has weaknesses, or flaws, just as any fighter has.
    In these instances, I'm not sure that Tyson was effectively using the peekaboo style any longer, as Stitches Yarn has just pointed out.
    But even so, Tyson was never an infighter, despite his short reach. I mean yes, he needed to get close and had to punch inside, but he was never a dyed-in-the-wool infighter like a Frazier was.
    He needed a bit of space to operate.
    Also, he wasn't comfortable off the back foot or on his heels, just as most come-forward fighters aren't.

    Holyfield studied Tyson like a road map. He knew Mike's tendencies as well as anybody. I remember him saying, long before they ever fought, that Tyson was an instinctive fighter, and that if you made him think, he'd be likely to choose the wrong option.
    Also, if you remember in the first round of the first fight, Evander seemed to get surprised by Tyson's first punch, which was a right hand. He said that Tyson always threw the left to start, which gives us a glimpse as to how well Holyfield had done his homework.
    You're correct that Berbick and Tubbs tried to push Tyson back, but they just lacked the skill to make it work. This was also Tyson at his rampaging best.

    Mathis also knew Tyson very well, going way back. Buster stated that watching Tyson fight, he knew that Tyson was no longer using the 'willy', used to practice the peekaboo style. Unfortunately poor Mathis was another that just didn't have the ability to take advantage of the flaws he was seeing.
    Speaking of Mathis, I liked watching him. He honestly couldn't dent an egg, and he was a little small, but he had some talent. Unfortunately, he was never going to beat the likes of Tyson or Bowe, but he was good to watch.
     
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  5. Stiches Yarn

    Stiches Yarn Active Member Full Member

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    Mike tyson fought more at mid range, used incredible speed and volume punching while darting in and out.
    Joe Frazier was a classic inside fighter, a pure swarmer, who would attache to your side and beat the crap out of you.
     
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  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Well Holyfield's gameplan seemed to be from the beginning neutralize Tyson's offense and drag him into deep waters. In interviews he makes it clear his goal was to make sure he didn't let Tyson gain confidence and start finding room to land those 'huge bombs".

    When the larger man backs up throwing lighter straighter punches like jabs it allows a shorter man to pressure and find angles/momentum to land their own looping shots. The shorter man doesn't have to fear heavy artillery as the taller man is basically trying to maintain the distance between them with footwork and carefully placed punches. The main dangers are counters or uppercuts but the issue for the man on the outside is that the shorter man knows this and can apply pressure strategically in a way to slip the more dangerous shots and continue to pressure.

    However the irony is that when the larger man refuses to back up or steps into the pressure fighter's range he created a huge problem for them. They cannot get nearly as much leverage and they end up not getting full extension on their punches. No matter how fast or powerful the punches, if someone is walking forward you will either have to adjust or end up getting your shots smothered. Holyfield did this brilliantly in the first fight by both remaining an immutable brick wall and ring center and also by stepping into the looping bombs to nullify the power. The main shot that pressure fighters hate--the uppercut--becomes even more dangerous as the bigger man is sitting down on their shots while stepping forward. This doubles or even triples the power, especially if the pressure fighter is also stepping forward. Combine that with clinches, shoves, mailing and rough house tactics/slugging and any pressure fighter will get very frustrated and annoyed attempting to "fight their fight".

    As for Mathis Jr I think he had momentary success basically by accident, he was a naturally come forward fighter and may or may not have been intending to disrupt Tyson's peak a boo style because he himself was a shorter heavy who was used to coming forward. It would be interesting to see Tyson go up against men such as Cooper, Tua, or Frazier to see if he could adapt. My hunch is that unless he can take them out early he's going to be in for a very rough night. As a side note, most people aimed at Tyson's head 90% of the time, so he'd be exploring uncharted waters seeing someone rough up Tyson up close aiming at the body and bumping shoulders with him.

    At the end of the day, Tyson's peak a boo style DEMANDED space at mid range to generate offense and defense simultaneously with his rapid head movement and fancy angles. Really anyone with a good chin and timing who is able to step forward without getting clipped would have a chance of disrupting Tyson's pendulum like fighting style.
     
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  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    He was still using the Cus/peak a boo style against Holyfield. One of the signature combinations was the right hook to the body followed by a right uppercut. He did this to Holyfield but Holy was just too durable and recovered quickly.
     
  8. Stiches Yarn

    Stiches Yarn Active Member Full Member

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    Not sure if he used the other things like volume punching, constant bob and weaving, and head movement.
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Every style has flaws.

    The so-called D'amato peek-a-boo style was known to have weaknesses from when Patterson was champion.

    What people often seem to ignore or fail to realize is that D'amato was interested in creating exciting fighters, ones that could win the crowd, and make money in the pros.
    Much of what he taught was based on that premise, not just to be an effective style of boxing. He wanted to have boxers fight in an exciting style, a commercial style. And he wanted a style he could teach them quickly, if they had the talent.