Did the Rumble In The Jungle decide who the greatest of all time would be?

@Richard M Murrieta I'm not the only one who thinks Foreman-Shavers would have a few knockdowns.

 

Hey William, How are you doing my dear friend? Me, I am doing fine. But I do miss the knockdowns. Ha Ha.

 

After the fight he said something to the effect that I showed everybody that said, " I had nothing left but my mouth."

 

Lol. I'm doing fairly good.

 

Good my dear friend.

 

No. It depends on what happened afterwards. If he retires he's been champ for less than two years- so hardly any 'best ever' category. Does he agree to give Ali the rematch that Ali wouldn't give him? If so, what happens? Does he reign for most of the 1970s until Homes is ready? Does he beat Larry? Does the Young fight end of similar to what it did anyway? etc

 

Every book I've read on that period, his account or that of historians, points at his disillusioment and weariness of the business side of the sport. Not sure if he would have the fire to go through the entire 70's even if he beat Ali.

As for our timeline: I don't think he chased the ghost of Ali for twenty years. Through that period he went from preaching on the streets, bald and mad looking, to smuggling his child out of St. Lucia whilst threatened by armed forces, and finally becoming a respectable minister and a pillar for his community. If it weren't for the financial troubles of his youth center he might never have came back. His main priority seemed to be setting things right with all of his children.

Everybody tried to get him back into the ring. Ali, King. Nobody could. There were ghosts but I don't think those were solely those of Zaire.

 

As an aside on George, I've seen the suggestion made that Old George really wasn't much different from Young George in personality; he just hid it better. That Old George was putting on an act, and was still a surly and unpleasant guy.

Even if this was true, I don't know how much it should really matter. People's entire personalities don't just change in a flash; when they do, we often suspect mental illness. Either way, George's conversion and behavior seems sincere enough; he walked away from a lot of money. IMO, it would be oddly admirable if he's still this grouchy, unpleasant guy who's suppressing those negative personality traits because he sincerely wants to be a good minister / community leader.

 

Agreed.

The man nearly went bankrupt trying to give kids a better future. For decades he refused to let his hair grow back as a sign of humility, and is a devout preacher and charity worker. Even if he was still surly and unpleasant, well then, I say it is all the more commendable to still act in the name of the greater good, one's imperfect nature notwithstanding.

 

Yes. There's a bit of the flim-flam artist about Old George. But he put his money where his mouth was in terms of how he lived his life for a while, so there's presumably a core of sincerity there. It would be weird if he quit boxing and set up a facade as a fat preacher for 10 years in a grand scheme to earn money in an unprecedentedly successful comeback.

 

It's weird.

Without Foreman, Ali doesn't rank above Louis probably. If Foreman beats Ali, then does Ali get up to face him again in more Foreman-friendly conditions, now having lost to Frazier, Norton and Foreman. Also, if Foreman does beat him, no, if he massacres Ali inside 3 rounds, then does he box until Holmes dethrones him and retire for good?

Now that I think about for more than a second, I don't think that a Foreman without the ghosts of Kinshasa comes back preaching and pulling jeeps at his advanced age.

 

Zaire cemented Ali as being the greatest heavyweight of all time. Quite justifiiably in my book. A Foreman victory would n't have done it for George though as it would have been pretty consensual that he would n't have beaten a PRIME Ali,whereas a post-prime Ali,albeit a still dangerous one,beat a prime Foreman.

 

Good take.

If Foreman massacres Ali and pulls out a win over Holmes, beating all other challengers along the way, would that be enough to cement his argument or would he need to do a bit more than just a Holmes in '78/79 to be ranked up there?

 

Conversely, if Holmes beat Foreman sometime after the Young fight, I wonder where he rates.