Did the second Foreman REALLY have a better chin than the first Foreman?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ikrasevic, Jul 9, 2024.

Did the second Foreman REALLY have a better chin than the first Foreman?

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  1. YES

  2. NO

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  1. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

    Aug 21, 2012
    It's clear that old Foreman was indeed better in some respects. It's also clear that stylistically old Foreman would cause younger Foreman some specific problems. Was he an "overall" better fighter. Well that's debatable. There's a lot to be said for youth and explosiveness.
  2. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Dec 17, 2018
    Agreed Pug, difficult to see a 160lbs Toney, or any MW for that matter, absorbing punches from Sam Peter the way he did when they actually fought.

    No question his greater bulk and vastly thicker neck helped in that regard, imo.
    TipNom, Pugguy and ikrasevic like this.
  3. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Good people of all countries, unite! Full Member

    Nov 3, 2021
    What you said, Swag, boils down not only to your and my discussion, but to the whole topic - at least.
    The question is whether some part of boxing history boils down to what you said.
    Now I apologize that I know less about boxing than most of you, so I can't argue with you in an argumentative manner... I will have to (for analysis) involve others (of course I DON'T HAVE TO)
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  4. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Active Member Full Member

    Jun 10, 2024
    It's not "impossible" & it wouldn't have been by "magic." There's no shortage of examples throughout boxing history of fighters whose sturdiness improved as a result of weight gain or weight redistribution.
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    Feb 15, 2006
    No there isn't.

    A fighters durability might improve if they no longer have to make a weight cut, but bulking up will not improve their ability to take a punch in itself.

    You can't put muscles on chins.

    If anything Foreman's chin would have been worse in the 90s due to cumulative trauma.
    Smokin Bert and swagdelfadeel like this.
  6. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Active Member Full Member

    Jun 10, 2024
    Ali's durability improved as he gained weight over the course of his career, & he never had to cut weight either. I'd argue Charles' did as well (comparing his fights weighing under 170 lbs vs. over it).

    No, but you can put them on necks, which can help to absorb the impact of chinshots.
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    Feb 15, 2006
    No, you just assume that their durability improved.

    In practice the evidence is very questionable.
    Absolutely nothing that he could have done to strengthen his neck that he wouldn't have been doing in his previous career.
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  8. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    Aug 15, 2018
    I can’t think of another fighter ever where anyone would argue this. Maybe a case can be made for Wlad. But I more credit his great defense. I’m not sure why his chin held up better. Maybe more to do w the pacing.
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  9. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jan 14, 2022
    Foreman's knockdowns in the 70s for example vs Ali and Young were due to fatigue more so than his chin letting him down. And the knockdowns vs Lyle is because Foreman was swinging for the fences with virtually 0 defense vs another big puncher in Lyle.

    The difference with Foreman in the 80s/90s is that he altered his defence using the cross arm defence, he also put on alot of weight so those big tree trunk like arms were put to good use to cushion the blows.

    Finally Foreman also paced himself alot better in his 2nd career as I said earlier fatigue was a big factor in the knockdowns vs Young and Ali.
  10. northpaw

    northpaw Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 5, 2010
    All of these are line items I came here to state. I think the main 2 were he was heavier/sturdier and his older version's defense was far better.
    TipNom, swagdelfadeel and BCS8 like this.
  11. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jun 9, 2010
    I lean towards the 'chins do not get better over time' side of the fence.

    Factors other than Foreman's chin might have changed over time, to perhaps enable improved handling of the risk of concussive impacts. However, I really can't see a case for a middle-aged man having gained some kind of physical edge in regard to his chin.
  12. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Active Member Full Member

    Jun 10, 2024
    I didn't "assume" Ali's durability improved, I watched him get rocked, dropped, & even seriously hurt multiple times by small HWs during the time frame that he weighed under 210 lbs & then directly compared that w/ the way he reliably stood up under extended beatings & clean shots from ATG punchers

    FALSE, Foreman was famed precisely for using a lot of unorthodox training methods during his 2nd career. Look at the pre-fight buildup to the Savarese fight, which shows (among other things) him dragging a jeep that's strapped to his back at the 10:14 mark:

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    That's on top of the fact that you simply have no way of knowing not only how a fighter's training regimen is structured, but also how dedicated he is to that training, both of which would impact his buildup & distribution of muscle.

    Then throw in the fact that our understanding of the nature & effects of concussions was far less in previous decades than it's been in recent years. Recent studies corroborate the impact of neck strength/muscle on curtailing the effects of concussive blows.

    "A neck that is stronger, thicker or aligned in a neutral posture – with the ears aligned with the shoulders – may reduce the amount of energy transferred to the brain during an impact, thus reducing the risk and severity of injury, said Carrie Esopenko, an assistant professor at the School of Health Professions and the report’s senior author."
    TipNom, Saintpat, BCS8 and 1 other person like this.
  13. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    Jan 3, 2007
    I think George Foreman ALWAYS had a solid chin. The difference is that the younger version didn’t know how to conserve his energy and had poor defense
    Silver, Pugilistic Punk, BCS8 and 6 others like this.
  14. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 26, 2009
    What you’re talking about here is, essentially, ballast. And I think that did play a part … just hard to topple him.
    Ney and cross_trainer like this.
  15. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Dec 10, 2014
    no. he fough$ smar#er and did no# gas. he gassed vs. Ali. chin was no$ problem
    Pugilistic Punk and ikrasevic like this.