Did The SRL Loss, Hurt Hagler s Legacy?

Nope

 

A little bit. kinda like Spinks did to Holmes. Both lost to 1976 Olympic Gold Medalists fighting in a new weight for their first time. I still have both of them top 3 in their respective weight classes

 

I don’t know if it hurt his legacy, but it certainly hurt his feelings.

Marvin, deep down, was a sensitive sort.

 

Excellent post.

 

I agree with you,Fergy. Marvin had already forged his legend beating Hearns etc.

 

I wish I could believe that, yet the night that Marvin lost I felt his legacy was affected forever and Ray's was enhanced, yet Ray should have retired that night and his legacy would have been stronger than it turned out, or at least had Ray retired after he beat Duran in 1989. I guess hindsight is 20/20. And I do think there was a flaw in Marvin's style and mental makeup a little, which came out in certain fights and situations like this one. He was great when he had animosity toward guys since that brought out the best in him, he had a great warriors heart and spirit, but he needed to be mad to get away from his sensitive part in him.

Regarding Ray and the fab 4, which he was part of. With Ray, he fought a guy who had a big history with Duran and Hearns, the other greats Hagler fought, so that losing to Ray was connected to them. Had those guys not been connected to each other, than maybe the loss to Ray would not have been as big. But Hearns had fought Ray and Duran, and Duran fought Ray and Tommy and Marvin, so then Ray beats Marvin after a comeback and a layoff. And to me Ray won rather decisively. It was a close fight, but Ray sort of controlled the rounds and won them with his faster hands and movement and if Marvin did win rounds, those were closer rounds in my mind than the ones Ray won. Ray did sort of manipulate his way to a win, but he studied Marvin and knew how to beat him, and also knew how to get to him mentally so he would think Ray was this docile rusty old guy whom he could demolish. The fight shows that Marvin could be manipulated and outmanuevered mentally, which is a big facet of boxing. Ray outclassed him mentally and in a sense historically, which translated to a win, which is probably why Marvin felt so angry with Ray for years.

 

In my view, Hagler won which means he beat all of the members of the fab four

I will say that it was Leonard's best all around career performance. the only problem is that he didnt win as many rounds as his fans thought

even so, a close loss is good enough for them

BTW, I love Leonard. His wins over Aldama, while having his GF's pic tapes to his sock. Be still my beating heart!

and who could EVER forget the SHOWDOWN! WBC Champ vs WBA Champ for all the marbles. How I looked forward to THIS ONE!

Personally, I felt that Leonard was the better fighter at the time. Better schooled. Better quality experience. Better trainer.

As for Marvin, he'd have had a much easier time had he had something left

 

Yea, and in the same way, Leonard's legacy was likewise damaged by the loss to Norris and ESPECIALLY the way he was punched apart by Camacho!

All else is nonsense

 

I don't see it as much since Norris and Camacho never were at the same level as Ray, yet Ray was at Marvin's level.. Ray moved down to fight Norris and then he fought Hector 6 years after that. The Camacho fight is almost forgotten.

 

you're correct. Neither was at Leonard's level.

They were above his level

and I can rightfully say this since Norris fought a better fight and proved to be the better man

and Camacho knocked Ray kicking and humbled him, then retired him. This time for good

Marvin merely outpointed Ray, but Ray DID make Marvin look bad. Blame it on a lack of reflexes

 

It doesn't hurt Hagler's legacy at all, one can plainly see he was at the end, slow reflexes and all. I agree he showed bad ring IQ giving away the first several rounds and underestimating Ray. He unquestionably would have turned up the heat and won the fight in his prime, but as it stands, I think Leonard won a close one.

 

Not getting that decision tarnished his legacy at the time. I think overtime when you take a look at it from here not too much. That was $ and politics.

When you compare Hagler to the other 3 kings or many of the other greats basically he has been elevated in our collective in our minds because he never cameback. He keep his dignity. His pride intact. Nobody ever stood over him.

 

They were above his level? Yeah I suppose Simon Brown was better than Ray also.

 

Why should it truly help either standing? Firstly it was so-so close. It also happened when it no longer really mattered or reflected how the fight could’ve gone.

 

I used to sound on Hagler for making some tactical errors, being over confident but when I watched that fight again about 2 years ago I saw differently. Marvin took so many fouls from the challenger, a variety of striking fouls he had to be in shock. The challenger should have lost at least a point. Obviously he would of changed tactics or lost mutiple points. More importantly Hagler nuts would have lived. He would of been able to fight with his usual zeal.
Richard Steele got paid that night but he did no refereeing. He was on the take. 1 judge was obviously paid off as well but his 118-110 gave it away. Even the biggest supporters of the challenger concede it was no more than a 2 point fight.

I love watching the old classic fights. Some I have watched 30 times over the years but I'll never watch that fight again.