Did these guys have any weaknesses?

Yes, all of them.

 

Moore's weakness is that faster fighters gave him a lot of problems. We've seen that against Charles and later against Patterson (though he was past prime). He still beat some great faster fighters though, so you need to be damn good to beat prime Moore anyway.

 

FWIW, I remember a boxing magazine, around 1980, doing a "strength & weaknesses" article featuring the top fighters of the current time. They talked about weaknesses in every fighter except one: "Wilfredo Gomez - No known weaknesses." I think it goes to show that every fighter has weaknesses and can be beaten in the right circumstances.

 

McCallum, slowish speed, not all too good against movers but tended to beat them. He was pretty complete. Jack of all trades, master of none (except body shots)

Moore, again, he didn't like movers but he did tend to win against them. Another very complete fighter.

Harada is either being less refined and too Gung-ho at 112, or being undersized and lacking KO power at 118.

Olivares has a somewhat questionable chin, and definitely a weak one at featherweight. He also could wing his shots a bit too much.

Ali, obviously open to left hands. Relies on speed/reflexes too much whilst young, got hit too much whilst old. Subpar fundamentals.

Monzon, I don't think so. Most complete on the list.

Toney had feet like tree roots. You couldn't count on him to be in tip top condition, and could be quite lackadaisical.

 

George! Glad to see that you are back!

 

Archie Moore had a lot of trouble against good jabs in some of his earlier fights.

The cross defence as a whole was pretty flawed.

 

I'd say that we got to see some glimpsed of a fundamentally sound style from Ali in the 70's, mainly in Manilla, but for the most part he retained bad habits as keeping his hands low and leaning back instead of slipping. But every now and then he'd pull something out that wasn't thought to be in his register, like when he stalked Bugner at times in their first fight.

 

Liston vs Ali I shows the difference between a fundamentally sound fighter (Liston) vs one that isn’t (Clay/Ali).

With that said...Ali was so gifted and tough that he could dance around the ring, inefficiently, with his hands down below below his chin, and throw a predictable 1,2 combination and 2-3 or 3-2 combination.

It tends to be that when a fighter is so gifted offensively or defensively that they let slip some of the fundamentals just because the fundamentals are perceived as holding them back from performing at their best and taking advantage of opportunities.

Roy is the same as Ali. He could have fought in a more sound way...but his gifts allowed him advantages that others could not match...but like Ali, it haunted him when he faced sound fighters of lesser talent just like it did to Ali.

 

Well, he beat Harold Johnsom who had one of the best if not the best jab ever.

 

Saying Moore always found a way to win against movers ignores many of his 23 losses and also the fact that over the last five years of his career he largely avoided them with the exception of Pastrano who he only got a draw against and Ali who he was knocked out by.

 

I disagree entirely. Ali pulled straight back, couldnt throw an uppercut to save his life, almost never bodypunched. Its why later in his career he began to rely on his ability to take a punch instead of sound fundamentals. A lot of trainers for years and years said Ali ruined the sport because every young kid that came into the gym wanted to fight like Ali but Ali relied on gifts that you are born with not fundamentals that can be taught. No trainer would teach a kid to fight like Ali and if he did that kid is getting knocked out. Hence poor fundamentals. You cant take an average athlete and teach him to be an effective boxer fighting in Ali's style. You can take an average athlete and teach him to be an effective boxer fighting in Joe Louis' style because Louis had arguably the greatest set of fundamentals of any heavyweight in history.

 

Ali boring are you well

 

I'm referring to his career as a LHW, where by and large he always found a way to win.

 

Have you seen his later career fights? They're torture.