Did trinidad Load his hand wraps??

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James Fisher is never too far behind Bernard Hopkins. He is hard to miss, and although Aladdin Freeman had interviewed him a while back, I couldn't resist the opportunity to talk to him after having met him at Miami's AmericanAirlines Arena on January 4th.

I approached Mr. Fisher, told him I had issues with him regarding the Steve Kim article and Tito Trinidad being portrayed as a cheater. He was quick to assure me he had never implied that the Trinidads were cheating, and when I asked him to put it on tape, he gave me his digits so we could set up an interview as soon as possible.

We got together the following Monday, and this is what we talked about...



BRC: What exactly is your position with Bernard Hopkins?

JFISHER: Well, I have many positions with Bernard. As everyone knows, my dad, Bouie Fisher is Bernard's trainer. Every since Bernard has been with my dad, we have developed a relationship such as brothers. We are real close, he calls me his "sponge." I absorb everything; before it gets to him, I absorb it. I'm like a buffer, such as they used in "The Godfather." I handle a lot of his business deals, business things, such as the camp. I arrange the camp, oversee it and make sure everything is in order.


BRC: I want to talk about Steve Kim's infamous "Cheat-o Tito" article. Let's start out with what happened in Tito's dressing room. Can you tell me what happened there?

JFISHER: For all the fans that don't know the procedure of a championship bout, or any bout, before a fighter can have his hands wrapped, a representative from the opposing camp has to be in the dressing room. When they came to our dressing room and asked for a representative, myself and brother Nazim Richardson, who is a second in Bernard's corner, went over to Tito's dressing room. When we got there, one of his hands was already wrapped...

BRC: Do you remember which one?

JFISHER: I think it was his left hand, it was already wrapped and Tito's dad didn't want to take the wrap off. The Commission's representative didn't want us to make him take the wrap off, he said it was okay, but that's not the rules, he had to take the wrap off.

We debated back and forth for like an hour and they finally had to call the Chief Inspector for the New York State Athletic Commission and when he came, he told them what the rules were, which they already knew, and they cut Tito's wraps off. Then, they started wrapping his hand again, and there was a controversy on the way he (Trinidad Sr.) was wrapping Tito, as far as the use of the tape and gauze. That's when they called my dad, and they were going back and forth on the proper way to wrap hands,

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It's just that it's not their job, you know... To enforce them taking the hand wraps off; the Commission, the guy that was inspecting, he should have never even let them start, but he did, and he was like, being unfair, you know.


BRC: Well, James, I want to thank your for your time, your kindness, and your candor. I know it's not easy to go against the tide and we have gone against the tide a bit here tonite....

JFISHER: Well, you just have to be honest, and I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to let, not only the Puerto Rican fans hear this,

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Power is the last thing to go they say and he had zero snap on his punches. Roy on the other hand, who was more past it was hurting Tito with every punch and toying with him.

 

Cherifi Better Watch Tito's Hand Wraps.
Exclusive by Ron Heard

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The thing is Trinidad has been getting away with doing this for a long time. I know for a fact that he has done it at least one other fight. They are used to being able to do whatever they want and get away with it. That is how it is in boxing."
First of all, you have to wonder who this commissioner was that let Don Felix wrap Tito's hand without anyone from the Hopkins camp being there. Hopkins said, "not only did he let him wrap the hands without us being there, but he was in there joking and laughing and talking Spanish with the Trinidads like they were best friends. When Bouie told them that he would have to take it off and rewrap it in front of someone fron their camp, he said "NO," its
already wrapped and it's too close to time for the fight to start. Bouie had to go to the head commissioner before they were made to rewrap his hands."
Luckily for Hopkins, Bouie Fisher is old school and he was not going to let this fight go on with Tito having wrapped his left hand and nobody from his camp watching it. "Bouie kept telling them, either we do this by the book or we don't do it all," said Hopkins.

It didn't make sense to Fisher why the Trinidad's were so insistent on not rewrapping the hand because obviously they knew the rules. They have been in enough of these big fights to know that a representative from the other camp is allowed to be in the room while they are wrapping Tito's hand. Even if the New York Commission's Representative didn't know any better, the Trinidads definitely did. The Trinidads went so far as to actually say, "If we have to rewrap Tito's hand then there will be no fight."
Why was this left hand wrapping so important to the Trinidads?
Finally, after the head commissioner became involved the Trinidads were told to either rewrap the left hand or the fight was off. After much argument, they finally agreed to rewrap the hand with a member from the Hopkins team present.
Tito was made to remove his glove and the prior wrapping in front of Hopkins representative

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. All the sudden it became very clear why they had tried to get away with wrapping the left hand without anyone from the Hopkins camp watching and also why they didn't want to remove it and rewrap the hand.
Don Felix began to rewrap the hand again, but Richardson noticed that Don Felix was putting layers of tape and then gauze, tape and then gauze, tape and then gauze which is not in accordance with NYSAC rules. The rules stipulate tape cannot be applied directly over the knuckles, and that repeating the process several times (is not permitted).
In an interview with Bernard Fernandez of Philly.com,

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. It's like being hit with a baseball bat. I'm giving out some secrets here, but you can dip your hands in ice water and that tape will, like, marinate and become harder. But it's only cheating if you get caught. Personally, I think Vargas' and Reid's people dropped the ball. Naazim did a brilliant job in spotting what [Felix Trinidad Sr.] was doing with the wraps." Don Felix was also putting tape on the skin and over the knuckles, both of which are not in accordance with NYSAC rules. New York's head commissioner put his foot down and made Don Felix wrap in strict accordance to the rules.

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There are a couple really important things in this statement by Don Felix.
First, he admits that the New York Commission wouldn't allow him to wrap the hands like he ALWAYS DOES. There can only be one reason for him not being allowed to wrap the hands that way - it was illegal. Therefore, if that is how he ALWAYS wrapped Tito's hands in the past, the assumption that he always wrapped illegally is not far-fetched. But this time he was forced to wrap the hands in strict accordance to NYSAC rules.

Second, he admits that not being able to use the layers and to put the tape on the skin and over the knuckles, "TENDS TO TAKE AWAY SOME OF THE POWER IN THE PUNCH." So he admits that with the illegal wrapping Tito is able to hit harder.
Finally, he also admits, that not only does the illegal wrap allow Tito to hit harder, but it PREVENTS TITO'S HANDS FROM OPENING ON IMPACT" which actually provides more protection for his hand. So while most fighters have to worry about hitting a fighter on the top of the head in fear of hurting their hands, Tito's hands have extra power and extra protection from illegal hand wraps.
You may think, "Oh Well," it's over. He wrapped the hands illegally, he got caught and was made to rewrap legally - no harm - no foul.
Not exactly.
First of all, Don Felix insists that he is going to continue to wrap Tito's hands the way he has always wrapped them - which is of course, illegally. In the same interview quoted above, Don Felix is asked straight out, "Will you be wrapping Tito’s hands differently for this upcoming fight with Cherifi?" and to my absolute amazement his answer was, "No, we’ll be doing it the same way we’ve always done it because I believe that we wouldn’t have the same problems we had for the last fight. That controversy was really done to fill our heads with too many things at the same time. It was like a type of terrorism in a time when terrorism was in the United States. It was boxing terrorism."
I don't see how you can blame Hopkins for not allowing them to wrap Tito's left hand without anyone from his camp being there. Hown one day the cops come and arrest you just after one of your sparring sessions on her face, you can't blame the cops for terrorizing you just because you got away with it all the other times.
If the wraps were illegal, then they will be and always have been illegal. That is as long as they are in the United States. Which brings up a very interesting twist.
Cherifi better watch very carefully how Tito wraps that left hand, but even if he does, are the same rules applicable in Puerto Rico? Even if the rules are the same will the commission there enforce them?

Regardless, the fact remains; the first reason to pay close attention to this issue is for the protection of Tito's future opponents, such as Cherifi. However, there is another reason. What about Tito's past opponents?
Tito Trinidad has moved up the boxing ranks by giving some of the best fighters in boxing a severe beating and some of them may never be the same after suffering the effects of that beating. Take for example, David Reid. In March of 2000 Reid, who was 14-0 and the WBA jr. middleweight champion of the world, stepped into the ring against Tito Trinidad. Reid had a good right hand and caught Tito with it in the 3rd round and sent him to the canvas. More importantly he was able to avoid Tito's left hook, but only until the 7th round. Tito knocked read down in the 7th and then 3 times in the 11th. Since that fight it has been apparent that Reid will never be the same fighter. He was literally ruined by one fight.
His next fight against Kirino Garcia (who had a record of 28-20-1) you could see the lasting effects of the Trinidad beating - this was supposed to be a confidence building fight for Reid. But instead, Reid was gun shy and tired badly down the stretch allowing Garcia to almost steal the fight; in fact, everyone in the audience felt Kirino Garcia won the fight even though the judges gave the decision to Reid. However, Reid knew he was not the same.

 

His next fight would be against Urbano Gurrola (who was 18-7) and it was more of the same. Gurrola withstood the right hands through the first 5 rounds and then Reid tired badly. It was as if Reid was a totally different fighter. You could see the panic in his face by the 8th round as Gurrola started putting pressure on him. Again, Reid was given a decision that many felt he didn't deserve. The next fight against Maurice Brantley (23-3) was almost identical to the two prior fights. But if those three fights weren't enough proof, his next fight against Sam Hill (who was 13-2-1 and looked to be badly out of shape) confirmed everyone's suspicions. Reid would never be the same fighter - he was TKO'ed in the 9th round by Sam Hill on November 11, 2001 and his career likely over for good. In just over a year’s time it became crystal clear that the beating Tito Trinidad gave David Reid would last a lifetime.

Then you have the Fernando Vargas. If anyone heard the explosion that Tito's left hook made when it connected to Vargas' chin in the first round of their fight, you have to ask yourself "what did he just get hit with." Even Fernardo Vargas said, "I had never been hit with a punch like that. I can remember thinking, who is this guy Mike Tyson." After going back and watching the tape of the Vargas vs Trinidad fight, I noticed that even Jim Lampley was saying, "look at how Vargas is responding even to Tito's jab." It was absolutely amazing. Tito's jab was almost knocking Vargas down and this is a fighter who had fought top quality opposition and had never been knocked down before. The exact same story with William Joppy.
However, once he was made to wrap his hands legally against Bernard Hopkins, the power was gone. At about 1:30 into the first round, Tito and Hopkins got tangled up and as Hopkins was pulling out, Tito was holding his arms down and he hit Hopkins with the exact same left hook that took Vargas down and Joppy out, yet Hopkins felt no ill effects. Again, in the 5th or 6th round as the bell rang to end the round, Tito threw a left hook after the bell rang and caught Hopkins square on his chin, yet Hopkins just looked at Tito like to say, "is that all you got."
You could see the look on Tito's face, he knew that the fight was over at that point. Even Hopkins told me in our interview, "once Tito hit me with his left hook and seen that he couldn't hurt me, the fight was over." It seems that the illegal hand wraps do indeed have an effect on Tito's power, just as Don Felix says.
The facts are, that if the wraps were illegal in New York and Don Felix maintains that he has always wrapped Tito's hands that way and that he is going to continue wrapping Tito's hands that way, then there needs to be an official investigation.

Ironically, in the very same building that Don Felix was caught wrapping Tito's hands illegally (Madison Square Garden), in 1983 a prospect named Billy Collins was badly and surprisingly beaten by an outsider named Luis Resto. At the end Collins's eyes were swollen shut, his mouth was badly bruised and his nose broken. Afterwards his trainer-father shook hands with Resto and felt no padding in the gloves. The very same New York commission discovered
it had been replaced with water. Resto's cornermen, Carlos "Panama" Lewis and Pedro Alvarado, were banned for life, Resto for one year. Lewis and Resto were also convicted in a criminal court. Not only was Panama Lewis banned for life but he was also jailed for two years. Collins never boxed again, became depressed and died nine months later in a car crash.
There must be an official investigation before there is a Billy Collins in Tito Trinidad's future and we can only pray that there is not one in his past.

 

Alton Merkerson

First of all, the most important thing when wrapping hands is to protect three areas of the hand: back of the hand, the wrist and the thumb. The knuckles you put pad over to protect, so you won't have direct contact. My philosophy is in reference to the tape, in reference to the Commissioner, they give you a certain amount of gauze, some people say ten yards, twelve yards, even up to fifteen yards, and most people say eight feet of tape, one inch tape, as long as it's not going across the knuckles.

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but that is a rule by all Commissions all over the world, that you don't put tape over the knuckles. Most Europeans and Hispanics for some reason do not put as much gauze on the hands as most Americans do and they use excessive amount of tape, and it really makes it like a cast and what people are saying that the gloves, that the hand wraps are loaded is because it's so much tape, it actually feels like a cast. So that won't allow any of your bones in your hands to move; any big puncher would like his hands wrap that way, and it's safety for them, but most people think it adds more power to the blow, IT DOESN'T, but it gives you confidence and you feel better about throwing a punch as hard as you can with your hands wrapped like that because you have less chance of injuring your hand.

BRC: Based on your vast experience, have you ever felt uncomfortable about the officials appointed by the Boxing Commissioners, the officials that are responsible for watching the trainers wrap their fighters' hands? Have you ever felt that irregularities have taken place?

AM: I feel comfortable with them but I do like one of my representatives to be present, because you don't know you might, in a world championship fight, you know boxing is corrupt, you don't know who favors who or who is biased and they might let them get away with something. So, that's the reason why you want to have a representative from your camp in that other person's locker room when they wrap hands.

Every fighter and every Commissioner should know exactly how much gauze, how much tape and how a hand should be wrapped. So, when you deviate from that, you complain about it, the biggest problem that most people have with the Hispanic wrap and even Europeans is that they use excessive amounts of tape to secure the hand and make it like a cast. So, the rule of thumb is that in my camp I do have one of my people observe, even though the Commissioner is there...I'm not saying that he doesn't know his job, but I rather have one of my people there also.

BRC: Let me run this scenario by you. Our feature correspondent, Aladdin Freeman, interviewed Bernard Hopkins shortly after his resounding victory over Trinidad. Hopkins said and this is a direct quote: "Trinidad had only skin and then tape on his hands, no gauze, and it also looked like he was wearing casts..."

AM: State of Florida Rules and Regulations state that 105-154 pounds can use 10 yds of gauze; they don't care how they put it on the hands, anything over 154 pounds can use 12 yds of gauze, they don't care how you put it on. When you get to the tape this State allows you to use 8 foot of tape, and that is not very much; one roll of tape is ten yards, usually a person can wrap with 3/4 to 1 roll of tape, and there is nothing said and no tape over the knuckles, you have to be an inch behind the back of the knuckles. The only tape you can use and gauze you can use that is affiliated with the knuckles is going between them, and that is just to secure the tape so it won't peel back. That's cut and dry, and those are the rules and regulations.

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I don't have any problem with it as a trainer.

 

all of this **** sounds very familiar what a piece of **** Nazim is

 

Physics.
:deal

Concentrate weight to one small area to get a higher impact.

 

Jeff Mayweather

Basically, for the most part, the first thing I do is make a pad to protect the knuckles, because that is where most of the impact is going to come from. When you hit another fighter, the knuckles is where the force is going to come from. So, I make a large pad for my fighters with gauze and after that I use a total of five gauze, two for the wrap and one for the padding which is very important to protect the fighter's hands and then

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, and in that sense I don't feel...only thing you can do is if you put metal or if you do something like what Panama Lewis did, with the padding of the gloves, that's something totally different.

But we are talking about when you wrap a guy's hand the commission should be there to mandate the amount of tape you are going to wrap around the hand. The tape is there basically to protect the fighter's hands. Once you use the gauze and once you start taping, there is no longer any gauze.

BRC: Does each camp get same exact amount of gauze and tape?

JM: That, in that sense is not really true because each trainer, while they have a standard by which you are only allowed to use so much gauze, each trainer has his own amount of gauze that he brings in and of course some can get away with using more, some can get away with using less. Some fighters like using even less, and the trainer himself has to bring the gauze, not necessarily the commissioner or the state. In that sense u have a little independence to use it freely, but the one thing that is true in every state is that there is an appointed representative from the commission of that state, to watch, to watch as the hands are being wrapped.

BRC: In your experience, both as a fighter and now as a trainer, your years in boxing, have you ever felt that you could not trust the person appointed by the commission to observe the wrapping of the opponent's hands? Have you ever felt uncomfortable in any sense with that?

JM: In my own experience, no. I feel that the only thing you can really do is if you take the padding out of the gloves, or you could use excessive amounts of tape, but there are rules and regulations that stipulate that you can only use one roll of tape. Of course, some of the Commission's people are a bit more lenient because it is for the protection of the fighter, but they know when...I mean, a lot of the Commission's people are ex-fighters, they might be a little bit lenient but they won't allow anyone to go berserk with the amount of tape that they are using. And plus, you can't even really protect the knuckles, only way you can protect the knuckles is with padding, you can't tape the knuckles.


BRC: Based on what you have explained to me, is it a fair statement to say that a bit more gauze, a bit less gauze, it's not going to affect the impact of the punch?

JM: That's pretty much right. The gauze has nothing to do with it, like I said the gauze is basically there to protect the fighters. Some fighters don't like too much gauze, they like to feel they can almost feel their hands when they hit a person. Some fighters are like that, they don't care about gauze.

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BRC: If one of your fighters got knocked out badly and came to you and said, wow! I had never been hit like that before, that guy punches funny. Would your immediate response be that the opponent's gloves were loaded?

JM: No, I would probably say you have never been in there with a guy that punches that hard. One thing is that Felix Trinidad is a proven puncher, I mean he has proven that throughout his whole entire career, as a welterweight, at 154...Maybe these guys have never been in with a guy that punches like Trinidad on a consistent basis, and that is my honest feeling. I don't think the hands wrap would have made any difference in the Hopkins fight, Hopkins had his number that night. I think Trinidad is a devastating puncher no matter what kind of wrap he's got on.


BRC: I have one last question for you... You were a fighter, you are now a trainer, you come from a family of good fighters...Do you feel that it's fair to write an article questioning a guy's integrity, the accomplishments of his career, questioning the commissions that he has fought under based on the comments of three guys that got knocked out by this one person?

JM: If those guys would have won, you would have no excuses. Excuses come from losers. I don't care how you win, even if you don't win and you win, as is the case sometimes, you hear no complaints. So when a guy loses he has to find excuses, you know, like how did this guy beat me, or how did this guy devastated me, or whatever the case might be. Trinidad had no excuses, he just lost to Bernard and he took it like a man. Like I said, losers have excuses, winners don't.

 

I agree but disagree, I agree that a guy can or cant punch sure, but I disagree that the wrap can and does make a difference it depends on how you wrap that knuckle pad.

Most trainers 99.9% of them leave that pad flat across the knuckle area and then wrap the gauze in between each finger finalizing the hand wrap.

However I dont leave that flat, I take the pad and roll it up like I am rolling of a floor rug, I make it cylinder shaped, then place it on the knuckle and go over the wrap with the gauze, it makes the knuckle pad much stiffer but also IMO protects the knuckle if you lets say land an upper cut shot on the elbow.

HOWEVER!!! There are loads of trainers down here that take it one step further, and that is after they roll that knuckle pad up like that cylinder shape, they also roll that in tape then wrap the rest of the gauze over it when the inspector checks the wrap they cant tell it looks like a regular gauze pad because they finalized the wrap with just the gauze but you have tape holding that knuckle pad together pretty darn tight and that does make a difference its like being hit with a rock.

I have caught two amateurs trying to get away with this ****, and the ****ed up thing about it was I had to argue with the inspector about it in order to get them to un wrap the hand....

Nothing happened to either the fighter or the trainer as a result :verysad

 

So you're saying that instead of rolling a gauze over the knuckle pad, they roll tape over it?....and how many yards will it take for it to be hardened?

 

You are only allowed 15 yards of gauze and 2 yards of tape per hand, but the knuckle pad rolled in tape is placed on the knuckle then they wrap over it with gauze, which looks like its legit. it doesnt take much tape I say they use a yard just on the pad when wrapping like this but the inspectors never notice unless you insist they un wrap as it looks like a normal gauze pad because they covered the illegal pad with fresh gauze.

So what I am saying to break it down, imagine your holding the knuckle pad in your hand, they take that and roll it up as you would say a blunt... then they wrap tape around that, then they place that on your knuckles, then go over it with gauze to make it appear legit.

Make sense?

 

@Isa
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Sad. Watched the Doc Assault in the ring a year or two ago. Panama was a piece of **** some of the things he did. Was terrible that Resto knew too. :verysad