Did Tyson come back markedly a different fighter after prison?

He was still the same Tyson!

Tyson became a mentally broken fighter after his first loss to Holyfield.

......he was a broken man mentally, not being able to handle that he could'nt claim to be the baddest man on the planet.

Just look at all his ringwalks.....always with an aura of " how dare these guys think they can even climb in the same ring with me!"
It was that way all the way to the 1st Holyfield fight.......

Then it all changed......look at the somber way he walks in to the ring for the Holyfield rematch......and for the referee's instruction before the 1st round bell, Tyson could'nt even look at Holyfield.......
Just a mental wreck after the 1st Holyfield fight!!!

 

That's a complete myth.

D'amato died in the same year Tyson started. Tyson at that point had approx. 10 meaningless fights against bums (with the average record of 6-12 ... WOOOW).

Only after Don King took over Tyson's career started.

Another myth.

Before jail he had 14 somewhat meaningful (= non-bums) fights.
After jail he had 15 somewhat meaningful fights.

Before jail he had somewhat meaningful wins against
Donovan Ruddock, Alex Stewart, Henry Tillman, Pinklon Thomas, Frank Bruno, Michael Spinks, Tony Tubbs, Larry Holmes, Marvis Frazier, Trevor Berbick, Tony Tucker, Mitch Green

After jail he had somewhat meaningful wins against
Lou Savarese, Brian Nielsen, Clifford Etienne, Bruce Seldon, Frank Bruno, Buster Mathis Jr., Francois Botha, Peter McNeeley

I don't see a big difference there.

The average record of these win-opponents
before jail: 39-6
after jail: 41-4

That means, that his wins after jail were on average approx equally good (actually win-opponents were slightly better AFTER jail).

The ONLY difference is, as I see it, that he ran into higher quality and/or taller boxers AFTER jail (Holyfield, Lennox, McBride, Williams). All much tougher dogs.

Average weight of somewhat meaningful opponents (wins and losses)
before jail: 217 lbs
after jail: 237 lbs

Remember Wladimir Klitschko vs Sultan Ibragimov? That small guy (Ibragimov, 219lbs) was like the average opponent of Tyson before jail. That big guy (Klitschko, 238lbs) was the average opponent after jail.

Ruddock (whom Tyson failed to KO in the refight) and Buster Douglas (who KOed Tyson), by the way, were THE HEAVIEST of these opponents.

Thus you see the theme here in Tyson's career: It's not that he got worse, it's simply that that he (small as he was) had always difficulties with taller/heavier/better opponents and after jail, there were simply more of them.

There was one opponent he fought before and after jail: Frank Bruno.
Before jail TKO 5, after jail TKO 3. Thus again, Mike stayed pretty much the same, but the quality of opposition (aside from Bruno) got higher.

Moreover he got older: ALL his opponents BEFORE jail were OLDER than him. After jail the age gap closed and some were younger and some older.

And in case another myth comes up: Lennox Lewis was EVEN OLDER THAN Mike Tyson in their fight. So "Mike was too old when fighting Lewis" doesn't count.

Thus stop mentioning D'Amato or jail. D'Amato had nothing to do with the majority of his career and the jail probably spared him some losses.

 

Exellent post, and props to you for taking the time and actually doing what alot of people in forums like these fail to do......Research!:good

 

Some of the opponents post jail had padded records. Lou Savarese is a classic example.

I think Tyson was overrated - once the aura went it was all over, and his mental frailties were there for all to see.

Why he was allowed to fight Lennox Lewis still baffles me.

 

Excellent read knn, sums it up to a tee.

 

There is just one problem his/her statistic are completely idiotic. He/she just looks records in a boxrec and makes some bogus statistics.
How about actually watching how Tysons fighting style changed after Rooney.

 

They doesn’t show it in boxrec but Tyson was already undisputed champion when King took over. So it is idiotic to say that Tysons career started when king took over.

Record in title matches before jail. 10-1

Record in title matches after the jail. 2-3

I see a big diference in there.

No way Tysons victories was better after the jail. Records don’t tell you a fighters talent. Also you count their current records, while you should look their record in time of a fight.
And Mcbride and Williams much tougher dogs? What an idiotic statement that is.

Yea because just looking his record against Bruno, you can make that kind of assumptions.
First of all both of those matches were after Rooney and Tyson was already more of a head hunter that time.
It worked against Bruno before prison and after the prison but it doesn’t mean that Tyson wasn’t better at some point.

You make it sound like it is advantage to fight 30 year old world champion in you early twenties. That same logic my nephew would have amazing twenty plus year advantage to Wladimir, so it should be easy fights for my nephew.

[FONT=&quot]So you don’t think it matters that Tyson first championship fight was 16 years before Lewis fight. You can’t just count the age difference and see who has advantage. Tyson was spent force when he faced Lewis and that was very clear everyone who watched a fight. :deal[/FONT]

Well with those great arguments and boxrec research I’m sure that people will never mention D'Amato or jail ever again.:good

 

Tyson would have never beaten Lennox Lewis, ever :deal

He would have had trouble with Evander as well

 

[FONT=&quot]If former undisputed champion with 9 title defenses isn’t great, I don’t know who is.[/FONT]

 

He lost it to some extent.He was still a good fighter but not like before.He wasn't great no more.

 

I think he'd slipped infinitessimally after coming out of jail but you have to bear in mind he'd slipped quite a bit before that. The fact is if look at the film of Tyson on the way up and up to his first title wins, when you watch all of the rest of his career you can see a sharp decline which then slows dramatically. The Rooney thing is true, after he was gone Tyson would never be the same, the combinations all but disappeared over night, so did the head movement. With Rooney Tyson was very hard to hit and when he got close he unloaded combos and would hit his opponent when he tried to grab him. After Rooney Tyson always looked for the one big punch and became a lot easier to hit. Other than Holyfield and Lewis I think the opposition he fought in the eighties was better than after he got out of gaol but he looked less impressive against less talented fighters.

 

I personally think that Holy would have beaten even the Rooney trained Tyson, I think it would be a lot closer perhaps even with Holy going down and would have gone the distance though. I honestly can't see Lewis beating the young Tyson, I used to think he would, in fact I've argued it vociferously but I've changed my mind, he was just too fast and too hard to hit. Styles make fights, Holy put presseure on Tyson and made him crumble and I think he could always have done that, Lewis kept him on the outside and punished him-I don't think Lewis could have kept the Rooney version of Tyson off him.

 

None of them were cruiserweights, there was no such thing at the time. Tyson hits a lot harder than any massively overweight heavy today despite weighing anything up to sixty lbs less. James Tillis would thrash anyone out there today. Being big and having no stamina is not a good attribute.

 

I think Lewis could keep Tyson off with the jab, quite easily actually.

Tyson would lose his rag and allow Lennox to take over, a couple of rights and the uppercut would leave Mike counting stars.

The aura was the big thing with Tyson, which had Bruno shitting himself. Lewis wouldn't be affected by that, and would break him.

The fight would be similar to the one they actually had. Same conclusion, though maybe 10 rounds rather than 8, and not quite as one-sided.

 

Mike seemed to lose a step post-prison, and then again post-ban.

Declines are rarely a straight line though. You watch him fight Botha in '99 and he looks dreadful, you watch him fight Golota in 2000 and he's markedly better. Different opponents, different styles, different times.

People often say Tyson became a head-hunter aftert Rooney left, from the Bruno '89 fight onwards...to be honest though, he wasn't exactly working his way in with multiple jabs and working the body against all his '88 opponents either, he was mainly going for the head. Things are rarely that cut and dried.