Did Tyson Fury have Wlad's number or he beat him simply because he was outta of his prime?

I mean both can be (and imo are) true. Wlad was considerably past his prime when he lost to Fury but I don’t think even a prime Wlad turns the trick tbh.

 

Yeah, have to admit I thought Fury might do something because of the stylistic match-up and he did. Naturally we'll never know if he'd done so against a five year younger Wlad, but even not against a Wlad who knew what a threat he was.

If you're that dominant there will more often than not come a time where you don't take an opponent seriously enough, and add to that the personal problems with his wife in the hospital with a deep depression. So this is a case where I'd really liked to see a rematch even though the first wasn't at all controversial, but it didn't happen because Fury became self-diagnosed bipolar and retired, just to unretire months after Wlad retired.

 

I've always felt the absence of Steward from Wlad's camp/corner may have played a crucial role in Fury's win. I think he would've done a much better job of coaching Wlad on how to approach Fury's style.

 

I think that Wlad would've beaten Fury even then if he had Steward with him. I think Klitschko is far above Tyson H2H.

Best I could favor Fury against is Bowe, but Wlad? I think he's got much better chances against guys who are REALLY up there heavyweight wise.

 

Wlad was AWFUL in that fight. A shell of himself. And, Fury was only nominally better. One of the worst heavyweight title fights in history.

 

Tyson was always going to beat Wlad with that plan. Once. Prime or not. Tyson avoided any second because Tyson knew Tyson tricked Wlad more than anything.

Like Liddell and Coture. Randy has that win, it worked, once.

 

1. Fury beat Wlad in a very close contest during which Wlad started to find some success toward the end. Wlad's problem was he could not pull the trigger on the right hand during the fight.
2. Fury ducked the contractual rematch by giving up boxing for a few years. Wlad chased that rematch hard.
3. Fury has beaten noone near the level of prime Wlad in his career, having ducked AJ for years. If Wilder is Fury's next best win that says something.
4. Fury lost twice to an undersized Usyk after trying to duck for years.

Fury's best win by far was Wlad. He scraped past, quit boxing to avoid the rematch, and recently was dismantled by Usyk twice. He would lose to prime Wlad in my opinion.

 

I'm interested in the plan you're referring to. Is it the one where he pisses Wlad off so much prefight that Wlad fights stupid, the one where he waited until Wlad is old, or something else?

Fury fought his herky jerky style against Wlad who couldn't pull the trigger. I'm not sure it was the style that was the only reason Wlad lost. He was old.

 

I think Fury might have given prime Wlad some trouble but overall I think he would have eventually figured him out and beat him as I think he was starting to do in their fight but sadly rematch never happened.

 

I virtually never put that much on a highly finished product of championship caliber and their outing depending much at all on the trainer for one specific fight. I'm the last on here to do that. You never hear me saying a damn thing about Tyson not having Cus, for instance. I normally think it's grasping at straws to bring the trainer into it after a certain point in someone's career, for an excuse. But I would definitely hesitate to say the same Wlad, physically, would have the same level of losing effort with Steward there. There could've been a legendary moment of not just technical coaching judgment but understanding his fighter's psychology and their relationship dynamic coming into the spotlight to grab a win. I could easily see a moment of the type Teddy Atlas loses sleep salivating over, if ES was there. I could also see Lewis without Steward letting the VK win get away from him because of Steward knowing how to spot the strategy and bring it to his attention when things were getting pretty chaotic. Steward did have some moments where he had the finished product but he could still help swing the outcome.

 

It was one of those fights where a lot of things happened to a fighter at once I think.

Klitschko had been slowly declining for awhile and was past his best I think it's fair to say. He hadn't faced a genuinely good fighter for a while other than Povetkin, a fight in which he should've been disqualified imo, and no opponent had shown him much other than anything outside of plodding stand up basics for ages. Wach, Pianeta, Pulev etc. Personal problems as Bokaj has said

Fury was something else as has been said already. A looser, more jerky jerky, awkward, faux slick, instinctive, spoiling prospect altogether with superior size who wasn't going to amble forward in a straight line like a clockwork toy or let himself be octopussed into submission and had enough length and footwork to compete at range.

That was always going to be a wake-up call for a complacent, caught in a rut, ageing fighter who had long since ceased to take risks or consistently use his best weapons and hadn't needed to adapt outside his comfort zone for years.

That said, I think he still technically had the tools to win clearly if he'd thrown caution to the wind, but he'd become too gunshy to do so imo rather than losing his offensive timing and trigger. Content to stick with a low risk but dubious plan that wasn't working and hope that the judges and Furys own non output would get him home. But it backfired, and what you ended up with was a very lame and rather spineless handing away of his title, something for which he still doesn't reasonably cop enough shite to my eye. One of the meekest relinquishings of the main prize by an excellent fighter captured on film imo.

 

Wlad was way past it. I was at Wlad’s fight against Jennings in NYC, and Jennings used movement and it was clear to me Wlad couldn’t let his hands go as he once did, however I didn’t think Fury would win. He’s such a big target but his stamina was through the roof that night. I think Wlad of 2-3 years earlier Knocks Fury out. Wlad looked much better against Joshua who didn’t employ the same movement in his final fight.

 

Pivots.

Edit- I didn't mean for that to be so short it seems dickish. I wrote quite a bit then felt like it was condescending.

I just don't think the twist was going to work twice.

 

All respect Swag, to me Wlad hit too hard and Fury didn't have the power to really hurt him.

Wlad in 11.