Did Tyson really duck Lewis in 96?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by NewChallenger, Sep 7, 2024.


  1. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nah, it was the other way around. Ruiz and King ducked Lewis. WBA agreed for Lewis to face Grant and take on Ruiz next. That was the initial plan. But after the Grant fight was already signed, King went to court to enforce mandatory, which at that time was basically to strip Lewis off of the belt. So Ruiz chose to fight for a paper title, instead of taking on the champion.

    You can make this case for every fighter who retired on top, lol.
     
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  2. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    45 million? That seems kind of outrageous for a fighter with viritually no profile in 96. In 2002 when they both met, both got like 30 million each. How exactly were they gonna get 45 million?
     
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  3. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    Dude, Lewis was not worth more than 13.5$ mill regardless. His claim to fame was KO'ing Ruddock which was impressive, but then he got KO'ed back against Mccall. Whatever money they demanded to fight on his network must have been absoloutely outrageous as 13.5$ or even slightly less sounds about right for Lewis at that time.

    And no, Lewis is not obligated to take an offer. But if you do not take 13.5$ Which is a CAREER HIGH Purse, biggest payday you get, your profile isn't as high as the champions and you recently got KOed, that SCREAMS of ducking. And people talk about Mike paying him step aside money, yeah well. He took that step aside money. He was offered the 13.5 for a fight he said no, used his mandatory position as leverage and took step aside money instead.

    The point here is, Lewis priced himself out of the fight thinking he was worth more at that point than he was because he just wasn't confident he could win and Mike just wasn't gonna pay him ridicolous amounts of money when he already offered him a career high purse.
     
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  4. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Don't know, but it's from the same source that claims Lewis was offered 13.5 million :p
     
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  5. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What? You can’t duck someone you just beat by stoppage, lol. Retiring isn’t a duck, it’s hanging them up. He beat Vitali and thus by definition did not duck him.

    Credit to Lennox for facing his No. 1 contender on his way out the door.

    Mike, however, ducked Lennox. Too bad he couldn’t duck Buster’s jab … or his right, or his hook, etc.
     
  6. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, purse bids would show if he was worth more or not.
     
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  7. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    The thing I find absoloutely hilarious is; get this. Lewis turned down 13.5 million to fight Mike. But here was the purses in millions for;

    10$ for Holyfield 1
    8.5$ for Tua
    7$ for vitali
    2$ for Morrison
    7.5$ for Grant

    But for some odd reason, Lewis did not accept 13.5$ mill to fight Mike in 96 and he was going to cobble up 45$ million. I just don't get it
     
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  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No, you let it go to purse bids. If Lennox isn’t worth that in a purse bid split, he gets his share of the bid and you fight him.

    They gave Tyson’s team an either/or: Pay us this or take it to purse bids.

    Tyson took Door No. 3: Duck and run.

    As mandatory challenger, he is by definition worth (for a title shot) exactly what the percentage of the winning bid says he’s worth — that’s literally the open market. If you can bid less than that and win the bid, he gets less. Why didn’t Tyson’s team just put up a winning bid? Because it would have added up to more.
     
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  9. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    look at my previous post and then do your whole "pay this, purse bids" and all this.

    If I am a fighter, and my mandatory challenger made 1$ million on his last 5 fights. I made 25-30$ million on my last fight and I offer him 4$million and he says no, I'm dumping my belt. Why? It's because you are not worth more than that. It doesn't matter if you are risk no risk or some risk. If I can find someone that accepts 3$ milllion that made 1$ million of each last 5 fights in the top 10 rankings, I'm defending against them,because guess what, that's all they're worth.Why?

    Because I'm already offering them a career high payday and if they demand money and I drop the belt, that is not me ducking them. That is me making a smart business decision. If I had underpaid them, given them like 1$ million to face me, then that is different, that is me ducking , but if I am giving you a well above career high payday and you want more nad I dump the belt, that is not a duck.
     
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  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It’s pretty simple: Take the purse bid and you’re free and clear.

    Take an offer from Don King and:

    1) King surely wants options to promote your future defenses — you’re tying yourself to King. Purse bids by rule cannot demand options. King ALWAYS wanted options.

    2) How the heck is he going to trust Don King to pay him the $13.5M? Mike Tyson himself would later sue King because King didn’t live up to his contracts. King screwed every fighter he ever dealt with out of money he was supposed to pay them according to their contracts. Why should Lennox bend over for that?

    And none of this matters. He’s the mandatory challenger. If he’s not worth all that, surely Tyson’s team could put up a winning purse bid and come out ahead if what you say is true. Wonder why they didn’t do that? Because it would have cost them even more.

    (Plus, King wouldn’t be able to rip off Tyson in a purse bid situation — when you win a purse bid, you have a certain number of days to deposit the entirety of both purses into escrow. Then the fighters get paid their guaranteed splits out of that escrow account — King doesn’t control it at that point. No wonder he didn’t want to allow that to happen.)

    No matter how you try to justify what Lennox is worth, the purse bids would have settled his value for the fight on the free market. There’s no reason if what you say is true that King wouldn’t have jumped on the chance to put in a lower bid.

    Tyson ducked him.
     
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  11. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Then you’re ducking the guy. He earned that split by becoming the mandatory challenger. That’s the rules.

    The fair market sets the price for the fight and the split is predetermined — the entire system is set up to assure the mandatory challenger gets to fight for the title and that the champion’s promoter doesn’t get to dictate the price (unless he wins the bid).
     
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  12. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, I don't believe the 13.5 million offer was legit either.
     
  13. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    I am not ducking no one if he is not accepting a significant career high payday.
    Boxing unfortunatly is a business first and a sport second, infact all big time sports are.

    if you see a fight card. You see a bunch of people and then you see a big name on the main event. Why are they the main event? Because that is what sells and that is what draws the money.

    Ending the discussion here because if you do not get how business works at this level then I just don't think we can ever see eye to eye and it will be a pointless back and forth

    And in regards to the purse bid? Yeah, Lewis purse bidded so hard that for some reason his highest paid fights actually were from Mike's fight in 2002 17.5$.

    He purse bidded so hard that he accepted to fight Holyfield the first time for 10 million

    God he was worth so much
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2024
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  14. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    I mean it sounds pretty legit

    Holyfield was paid 12 Million on his fight, so it doesn't really seem too farfetched for them to offer 13.5 million so I think the offer was pretty legit
     
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  15. Smoochie

    Smoochie G.R.E.B G.O.A.T Full Member

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    There was a thread few months ago specifically made to discuss about this and after countless pages of debate it was never proven
     
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