Did Ward Ruin Kovalev's Career?

I think you greatly overestimate the pertinence of nationality in the global context of the sport. Boxing judges, fans, etc. don't go into fights thinking about the US's place in the boxing landscape. Spence, Thurman, Crawford, etc. coming off the heels of Mayweather demonstrate that US boxing isn't in any trouble. And because the US is the venue of world boxing, nobody cares. Nobody even makes threads about that crap.

Looking at your last line I don't believe you understand exactly how to score a fight. 7-5 to Ward is 115-114 with the knockdown. It's one extra point. 7 rounds wins Ward the fight.

Post a scorecard and we can debate rounds, the rest is just speculative rhetoric.

 

I don't see how you could give 7 rounds to Ward and with the knockdown it makes it a lot clearer that there could have only been one winner on the cards.

US boxing has recovered somewhat but a lot was uncertain, Crawford hadn't broken through in the way expected. Thurman's career still feels like it's yet to catch fire - although I'm a fan - and Spence had a lot to prove. In my opinion claiming that I 'overestimate the pertinence of nationality in the global context of the sport' is as ridiculous as claiming that white privilege isn't a thing when it so clearly is for so many people. Being American comes with advantages in this sport and that's the reality.

As for scorecards - shall we both rewatch it again and then have a discussion comparing cards? I'm up for that if you are.

 

I have my card, post your card. 7-5 to Ward means he wins, the extra point from the knockdown becomes completely irrelevant. The knockdown is a single extra point. People that fixate on the knockdown seem to think it counts for more than it does.

Did you not have a card to begin with? If you don't have a card to begin with that explains a lot.

I won't deny being a hometown fighter has its advantages, but what really drives corruption in the sport is the moneymakers. Canelo got a draw card against Mayweather thanks to an American judge on American soil. Don-King promoted Trinidad got 3 116-112 cards against US-born De La Hoya. It's much less about nationality, especially when Americans in general don't consider boxing a nationalist sport. The analogy to white privilege is totally off base unless you can provide some statistical proof that Americans across the board receive more generous judging than fans & media are willing to give them. Ward is not a big moneymaker and none of the cards were wide like they often are when corruption is involved.

 

Golovkin/EE fans often claim that Ward is not a "MONEY" guy when they need to defend a certain someone not fighting him. They note how Mayweather "owns Vegas" because hes a big money guy. Then go on to cite Ward as some money guy when they cant explain how Kovalev lost. Its flip flopping all over the place with this group of fans. Ward has never been viewed or seen as a guy that makes money move until they need to explain what they couldnt envision happening.

 

Of course I have a card. I've posted several already as I already said. I posted my fight night card, I then rewatched it as part of the Ward fan club and posted another.

I was trying to be polite, see your point and see if both of us with cool heads removed from the fight watching it again came to the same conclusion but if you're going to be a jerk - as so many of you Ward advocates are when presented with an opinion you don't like - then I won't bother although with you seeming so intent on denying the advantages of being American it suggests that we're not going anywhere fast anyway.

 

Ward didnt ruin ****, it was the referees and the judges. Kovalev will be back though.

 

Forgive me if you took my words as disrespect. I don't have time to watch the fight again as I'm doing other fight-watching projects, but I'm willing to rewatch specific rounds that we disagreed on with our last watch. So here's my card:

 

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These clowns man. I swear

If nationality trumped money than US judges could have robbed Golovkin IN NYC against an American if they really wanted to make a ripple. But they didnt. Because Golovkin/Canelo is going to be a money fight. They cant understand how dumb they sound. They will say one thing to bash Ward not realizing their hero has just proven that theory to be completely false.

 

Thoughts ?

If I'm not American, never agree to three US judges and a US Ref in the US.

In fight 1, the judges delivered for Andre, and in fight 2, he had the referee.

In their first meeting, Sergey comprehensively outboxed Ward 6-3 with three very close.

Reasonable scores would range from 117-110 to 114-113. (I had it 116-111).



In the rematch, Ward was again being outboxed (I had it 5-2 at stoppage, 4-3 for Kovalev was reasonable).

Then, Ward decided to go low, and Weeks went along with the tactic.

The final insult was Weeks stopping the fight on a very clear low blow.


This was a black eye for the sport, and I haven't heard much outrage about it, as compared to the riffing of Loma-Salido or the decision in Pac-Bradley 1.

In hindsight, it adds significance to the Ward camp's insistence on a full American slate of officials.


So to answer your question, Ward, and some very dodgy US officiating, both judging and reffing, have had a significant negative effect on Kovalev's career.

It's too early to know if they've ended it.

More significantly, they have struck a significant blow against a sport that's struggling for credibility, especially in it's competition with UFC for the fandom of the paying public.

 

No, Kovalev beat SOB in the first fight, but the criminal judges gave SOB the decision. In the second fight SOB landed three low blows to the testicles in a row, Weeks stopped as he was told to do......................Vegas is a criminal place, you need to own the judges, referee and boxing commission to do well there...................

 

Exactly. Putting blame anywhere else completely misses the reality of boxing: these business interests called promoters put on fights and pay everyone involved. The commission and officials whose interest it's in that the promoter's boxer wins don't care about the nationality of the person paying them, just that they're paying them and in a position to continue doing so. There's only such thing as a hometown decision because the local boxer is usually the promoter's boxer. But both Ward and Kovalev are promoted by US-based promoters, and both are about equal in popularity. Yes Roc Nation apparently had a greater role in the rematch than the first one, so if anyone wants to call bias they could say Roc Nation rigged it if they want to.

But I highly doubt those people are willing to acknowledge that Golovkin-Jacobs could similarly have been rigged. It was a really close fight, I scored it for Jacobs live but on rescoring I thought GGG was more effective than I noticed and deserved it, but the point is the judges gave GGG the benefit of every doubt. Because it was a K2 show, and he was supposed to win. As those saying Ward was fixed to win rarely call out the biases in other fights it's obvious they're just Ward haters.