Did we jump the gun on Usyk or is he still best CW ever and a top HW?

I never thought much of Haye and I’m not sold on Usyk yet but I do like him better as a fighter then Haye. As far as best cruiser ever? ... you’d have to go with Evander. Speaking of Haye I find it interesting he’s trying to push Delboy into a fight with Whyte so quickly after his match with Usykto try and get the purse. Coming from a guy who fought once a year sometimes every 2 years makes me wonder if he really is looking after Derek or trying to cash out on him himself.

 

Genetics ? what Evander had was performance enhancing chemicals

 

Because you were talking to someone else and I had nothing to say about the Carl fight.

And sure, styles make fights, but my point is that you have to consider both things. How far past his best does a fighter have to get so that style isn't used as an excuse? Yes Chisora's style of high volume is worse for a boxer like Usyk, but he's pretty war torn. I excepted better from Usyk.

 

Haye was a highly skilled boxer, not just a puncher. More skilled than Usyk in many areas, genuinely slick with great defense and a superb counterpuncher.

Carl Jones? If you mean Carl Thompson, Haye was a ten fight novice and lost that fight on pure inexperience. Haye didn’t have the benefit of a long, drawn out amateur career, prime version beats Thompson easily.

Haye beat a much fresher, better version of Chisora, and did it in style. In comparison, Usyk was backpedalling for his life and making the sign of the cross in between rounds against an old, slow Delboy. Triangle theories don’t always work but you can’t ignore the huge gulf in quality of performance here. Prime for prime Haye does a demolition job on Usyk.

 

Would you say the same if Gassiev knocked Chisora out in 3? Would that make Gassiev better than Usyk?

 

Usyk is better than Haye ever was. Prime for prime, I’d take Usyk over Haye any day. He’s still adjusting to the weight and fought a pretty good fight against Chisora. Too much running for my liking but as soon as the ref warned Chisora for all of the holding he was doing, Usyk was able to control the fight.

Usyk is not the best Cruiser of all time. He’s have a decent shot against anyone at the weight but Hollifield was a better cruiser and better HW so far. In the age of drug testing, I don’t see Usyk ever adding the type of muscular mass Evander added in his time. Plus Hollifield had incredible stamina, and punch resistance against much bigger men. I can’t imagine anyone his size doing what he did at HW.

The good news is we should know pretty soon how good Usyk is. He’s no spring chicken and is working to get fights against the top guys in the division. Hope to see him against AJ or Fury. No predictions other than to say those would be two very difficult opponents for a guy Usyk’s size.

 

You responded to my post, and I mentioned Thompson, too.

Look, its pretty simple. Yes, if you look at both or their performances against Chisora, you might conclude that Haye was the better man.

But Usyk would not lose to Carl Thompson, so it is probably illusionary...a matter of styles making fights.

 

I think a lot of this is pure nonsense. I can't argue against something manifestly not true.

Yeah, I meant Thompson, and the idea that he was a ten fight novice is rubbish. He lost to a mediocre super-middle, and Usyk won a championship on his tenth fight.

 

Mairis breidis would have buried haye alive never mind usyk

 

Usyk is the #1 cruiserweight and a top boxer today. People could make a case for Holyfield beating him h2h but on resume Usyk is ahead.

 

This...

 

You really think it was genetics that helped Holyfield become a legit HW..?

 

Usyk is a tremendous fighter. Im a fan

Yes he might lose to Joshua and Fury, but it will be a close fight.

 

Hes better than haye but no signs yet will be near holyfields level.

 

Uysks resume at cw is x10 better than hayes. Haye beat one decent fighter there mormeck. Mormeck would be beaten by breidis, gassiev, hunter etc.