Did Wilder Cement his place among the ATG because of the Fury 3 fight?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by UFC2020, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    His resume does not warrant status as an atg. How does beating Ortiz and Stiverne correlate with greatness?
     
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  2. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

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    I'm just going to throw a couple of tangential points out for discussion...

    1) I ask myself to consider Wilder's record alongside a fighter whose place in the HoF is sometimes questioned and for whom ATG status is not really a topic of conversation...
    Does Wilder have a better resume or a more compelling H2h-nightmare case than Vitali Klitschko?

    2) I ask myself how I'd see Wilder's title run, long as it undeniably was, going if it was another fighter instead of Wilder with that belt and exactly the same opponents...
    Would Whyte, Povetkin or Parker have failed to beat Stiverne to win that belt?
    Would any of them have lost that belt to Ortiz or Breazeale or any of the even lesser ranked fighters on that run?


    And how do I answer?

    1) Hell no, even Vitali's less than exceptional resume puts Wilder's to shame, and Vitali would've decapitated Wilder and **** down what was left of his neck.

    2) Nope, they'd all have dealt with Stiverne no problems and walked through Ortiz and Breazeale, too.
    If Whyte had the same list of opponents as Wilder, he'd probably have the same incredibly high KO% and reputation for punching hard - it's not difficult to score so many KO's when you're fighting journeymen and the odd gatekeeper.
    The bigger difference is that all of them would've gone for the kind of defences a true champion would've made, and they'd have lost along the way... If Parker had fought Stiverne for the WBC strap, he'd still have gone for the AJ unification and would've made AJ undisputed. If Povetkin had had the WBC strap he'd have still fought Joshua and lost... Heck, Whyte would've used it to get his AJ rematch and probably would've lost it too.


    I just can't rate Wilder as HoF material, nevermind ATG.
    Not even close.

    And sure, I enjoyed the fight and applaud Wilder for taking his licks as he said he wanted to - I don't think it's too smart, but he said he would've preferred that to the towel after #2 and he lived it through in #3.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  3. The Long Count

    The Long Count Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wilder is not Hof material at all. He has never been the number 1 in the division and maybe not even number 2. If he was it was for short period of time. Wilder never faced Wlad, Povetkin, Joshua, Usyk, only Fury and he’s 0-2-1 in those three bouts.
    Defeating Stiverne and Ortiz does not make you great. Taking a beaten twice at the hands of Fury makes you tough not great. This is more about keeping Heavyweights relevant to the American fans as America has not produced a top level talent in 20 years. Really the last Hof level fighters America produced was the Bowe, Holyfield,Tyson trifecta over 35 years ago. And it’s going to be at least 4 years before another viable one comes along. It’s slim pickings in America so they are trying to lower the bar. Anyone with integrity sees this.
     
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  4. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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  5. red corner

    red corner Active Member Full Member

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    Should be 0-3 in the fights. His quality opposition allowed him to be tied for ninth. He's not great. Watch him fight somebody, you'll see. Who did he beat? Who.
     
  6. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 The Original 101.3 Full Member

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  7. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 The Original 101.3 Full Member

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    Well, that includes you buddy
     
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  8. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

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    Dubble makes a point... I'm not sure it's the one he intended, but it's a good point nonetheless.

    Statistics can be made to say anything if they're sufficiently stripped of context and cherrypicked mercilessly.
     
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  9. Cally

    Cally Sand...sand... nothing but sand! Full Member

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    Errrrr... let me have a think on that one...

    NO!
     
  10. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Active Member Full Member

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    If this thread had been made after Holyfield got KO'd by a faded Bowe, everyone on this forum would be saying he isn't an ATG, all he's done is decision some shot early 40's HW's from the 70's, struggled badly with journeymen, got a gift against fat Bowe, lost to a LHW, got battered by Bowe twice (and what has Bowe really done other than beat Holyfield?) and KO'd next to no one. It's par for the course lol.
     
  11. DonTyson

    DonTyson Active Member Full Member

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    Maybe, if you turn the list upside down.
     
  12. cuchulain

    cuchulain Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Is this a serious question ?

    This time last week his best win was Louis Ortiz, the dude who was at school with Fidel Castro.

    The supporting cast of names was headlined by Bermane Stiverne and Chris Arreola.

    So clearly, not an ATG.


    Then, on Saturday night, he lwas KO'd in his bid to recapture the WBC title.

    So in what universe would that loss catapult him into ATG status?

    His stock definitely went up in that he put on a much better performance than most expected he would, and he showed a lot of heart, guts and resilience.

    But coming into a bout with a very mediocre resume, and getting KO'd does not elevate Wilder to ATG status.
     
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  13. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I will say it again.

    Wilder's in the top five ALL-TIME for most successful heavyweight title defenses, the top five All-Time for number of consecutive heavyweight title fights ... the top 10 All-Time for number of heavyweight title challengers faced, the top 10 All-Time for scoring the most wins in heavyweight title fights, the Top 10 All-Time in the number of KOs scored in heavyweight title fights ... Wilder and Fury even own the all-time highest grossing live gate in heavyweight championship history.

    Wilder is an all-time great. Fury is an all-time great.

    All-time great champs say Wilder and Fury are both all-time greats. Mike Tyson says it. George Foreman said we can stop talking about him (Foreman) and Ali and Jack Johnson because Wilder and Fury have taken their rightful places in the present.

    You've been watching greatness all these years and you couldn't see it.

    Too busy complaining that he doesn't shake hands afterward or joking about his suits being heavy and all the other nonsense that has nothing to do with what happens when the bell rings.

    Hate blinds. Open your eyes.

    All-Time greats say Wilder is an all-time great.

    He's a first ballot Hall of Famer.

    They'll be talking about and watching his fights a 100 years from now.

    Catch up or get left further behind.
     
  14. cuchulain

    cuchulain Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    At the point you mention, Evander was not an ATG heavyweight.

    If we add his clean-out of the cruiserwt division and the fact that he was the greatest ever cruiser weight, he would have been an ATG boxer, but not an ATG heavyweight.

    He became an ATG HW later with more ranked names on his resume, including Mike Tyson.

    Deontay has nothing remotely close to a Tyson on his resume.


    So, yes, Deontay could become an ATG, depending on what he does with the rest of his career.

    Did his loss on Saturday get him there ?

    NO.
     
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  15. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Losing is supposed to have 'Upped' him??? WTF?!?!