Did Wilder Cement his place among the ATG because of the Fury 3 fight?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by UFC2020, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. On The Money

    On The Money Dangerous Journeyman Full Member

    Apr 4, 2012
    Heh has an atg right hand, give him that much.
  2. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

    Nov 23, 2014
    Wilder has beaten two highly ranked opponents in Ortiz and Stiverne. Tons of heavyweights have him beat in terms of highly ranked opponents beaten the criteria by which fighters are ranked.

    Title defenses are hardly relevant given the proliferation of belts. Wilder was never regarded as the man and has zero title defenses while recognized as the best heavyweight in the world
    cuchulain likes this.
  3. cuchulain

    cuchulain Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jan 6, 2007

    Is Povetkin an ATG HW ?

    He has a better resume than Wilder.

    I could probably name others with better resumes than Deontay, who are not generally considered ATGs.
    The Long Count likes this.
  4. Hankey89

    Hankey89 Member Full Member

    Apr 9, 2016
    Is this a joke? He has never beat anyone of note, his resume is pathetic. He just got comprehensibly taken apart by a guy who didn't look like he bothered training for the fight. He isn't a top 5 heavyweight today, nevermind an ATG.
    JDub likes this.
  5. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Apr 4, 2005

    That's because he never tried to unify and fought abysmal opposition for the vast majority of his reign, it's easy to rack up title defences if you cherry pick every opponent and are rarely forced to face a mandatory.

    Johnny Nelson has 14 defences of his world cruiser title.

    Sven Ottke had 21 defences of his super middle title.

    Artur Grigorian had 17 defences of his light weight title.

    Would anyone rank these as ATG's of their weight class? Ottke might have the best argument as at least he unified but his record in tainted by controversial decisions.

    His numbers mean very little once you look beyond the numbers and see their true value. For example Tyrone Brunson has the record for most consecutive 1st round KO's but nobody talks about him when discussing greatest punchers of all time or discuss him at all beyond this record because he was never any good and achieved nothing but this.

    Fact is Wilder's resume is very thin indeed. Sure Foreman and Tyson want to speak well of another American boxer, it's more comforting to think Wilder is an ATG than accept there hasn't been a great US heavyweight for over 2 decades now and the US heavyweight scene looks even bleaker once Wilder retires. Both Foreman and Tyson also tend to be very complementary of their contemporaries. Foreman would say Lewis was better than him and beat him, Holmes in contrast would trash Lewis at every opportunity. Both ATG's both with very different opinions and that's all it is an opinion, doesn't make it fact.

    Fact is if Wilder retired right now, he'd be lucky to get into the HOF, he probably will as he's American and the trilogy with Fury was memorable but the vast majority of boxing fans right now do not regard Wilder as a great and when it comes down to it, it's the fans and pundits that decide a fighters legacy and greatness and the consensus is clear he not only falls short of greatness but well short.
    kaapa2, dinovelvet and BubblesUK like this.
  6. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    I tell you Wilder's last 13 consecutive bouts over the last six years were heavyweight title fights ...

    No crap non-title bouts with Chazz Witherspoon or Junior Fa or Shawndell Winters or Seder Seferi ...

    All heavyweight title fights ... which puts him in the top five All-Time for consecutive heavyweight title fights ...

    And he goes 10-2-1 with 9 kos over those 13 fights ... an excellent record ...

    And your response is title fights aren't relevant anymore?

    Honestly, do you guys get tired of burying your heads in the sand? Doesn't it get exhausting denying what's going on around you?

    Just recognize what's actually happening. You might enjoy the sport more if you did.
  7. red corner

    red corner Active Member Full Member

    Oct 9, 2021
    Dubble chin,

    You are a fan of Wilder but can you'll me who he beat and what the age and working condition of fighters? Not close to an all time great. I await for your reply.
  8. lobk

    lobk Original ESB Member Full Member

    Jul 19, 2004
    Going 0-2-1 in your last three fight and the last two were KO lost now makes you an ATG? Seriously what kind of a stupid question is this?
    BubblesUK likes this.
  9. oldcanvasback

    oldcanvasback Active Member Full Member

    Jan 26, 2018
    I say no. Resume' is thin.
    Even Fury was a cherry pick to begin with.
    Hell of a highlight reel though
  10. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Active Member Full Member

    Feb 23, 2021
    Tyson had spent over 4 years in prison, had already been battered and KO'd by a journeyman/fringe contender and his best win in his prime was an inactive, semi-trained, flabby and old Holmes. If a hypejob is someone who consistently underperforms the odds and fanfare, Mike Tyson is probably the biggest hypejob in boxing history. Holyfield's stock should have been at its highest after he got that controversial decision over SHW Bowe and retook the championship, nothing he did after that came close to equaling it. Getting schooled by a LHW, KO'd by a faded Bowe on the verge of being battered by Golota x2, beaten twice by Lewis and the losses to middleweights all came after 1993, Holyfield's apex. If Holyfield was not an ATG heavyweight when he lost to Bowe in the trilogy, he never was.

    Wilder's loss in the trilogy didn't make him an ATG; his 10 consecutive defences (more than Tyson, Lewis and Vitali) with 9 by KO did. His 92.5% KO ratio against 215+ lbs opponents (the highest in heavyweight championship history) did. Being outweighed (often by 20+ lbs) in 22 fights since mid-2012 and beating all save ATG Fury (who was longer and outweighed him by 40 lbs) did. Considering his power, speed, length and toughness, Wilder also has as much claim to be a H2H nightmare as Vitali, seeing as Vitali's best opponent beaten was either a 38 year old Corrie Sanders, Sam Peter or Derek Chisora.
  11. VBOX


    Feb 8, 2012
    The stats are so watered down these days. I don’t give a crap what his stat sheet says. Hell no!
    BubblesUK likes this.
  12. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    Oh Bull. You mean if Wilder would've unified against Charles Martin, Joseph Parker and Andy Ruiz you guys would think he was an ATG?

    Spare me. :dunno

    It's not easy to EVER rack up title defenses, especially at heavyweight where anyone can knock out anyone else.

    Anthony Joshua didn't lose his title when he tried to unify, he lost his title when he fought a late sub, hopeless longshot in Andy Ruiz. Mike Tyson didn't lose his title when he tried to unify, he lost it when he fought 42-1 underdog Buster Douglas.

    Wilder fought his fair share of Andy Ruiz's ... he just didn't lose to them.

    Wilder's only lost to the best fighter in the sport - who he also floored FOUR TIMES in three fights. He knocked out everyone else.

    And Mike Tyson and George Foreman and other all-timers are acknowledging Wilder as their equal because they recognize how difficult it is to do what he's done.

    And that is knock out everyone you fight. And only lose to the absolute best in the division -- who you also successfully defended your title against (Foreman had Wilder winning fight one.)

    Mike Tyson and George Foreman and Muhammad Ali and even Anthony Joshua and every other heavyweight you can name never ONLY lost to the best in the whole sport. They lost to their share of scrubs.
    Showstopper97 likes this.
  13. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

    Nov 23, 2014
    They are not relevant when they are against undeserving challenges who are not even considered top 10 heavyweights.

    Some sanctioning body proclaiming them title defenses doesn't help the dire quality of opposition. Wilder failed to beat any of his most formidable contemporaries. I'm not sure he rates above Povetkin frankly and other contemporaries such as Joe Joyce may well turn out to be better as well.

    Usyks win over Joshua also is likely better than any win on Wilders resume.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
    BubblesUK likes this.
  14. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

    Nov 23, 2014
    By that logic why doesn't Alexander Povetkin qualify as an atg?
    BubblesUK likes this.
  15. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    Again, get your head out of the sand. Post where all Larry Holmes and Vitali Klitschko's WBC heavyweight challengers were rated. Wilder's 13 consecutive title fights and challengers were fine.

    WBC January 2015 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Bermane Stiverne (24-1-1) - #Champion

    WBC May 2015 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Eric Molina (23-2) #9

    WBC August 2015 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Johann Duhaupas (32-2) #12

    WBC December 2015 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Artur Szpilka (20-1) #8

    WBC June 2016 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Chris Arreola (36-4-1) #9 (late sub for #1 Povetkin - who failed his prefight PED test)

    WBC February 2017 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Gerald Washington (18-0-1) #8

    WBC October 2017 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Bermane Stiverne (25-2-1) #1

    WBC February 2018 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Luis Ortiz (28-0) #3

    WBC November 2018 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Tyson Fury (27-0) #3

    WBC May 2019 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Dominic Breazeale (20-1) #4

    WBC November 2019 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Luis Ortiz (31-1) #3

    WBC February 2020 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Tyson Fury (29-0-1) #1

    WBC August 2021 Ratings
    This content is protected

    Tyson Fury (30-0-1) (#Champion)
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021