Did Wilder Cement his place among the ATG because of the Fury 3 fight?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by UFC2020, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

    May 6, 2021
    Christ, we're seriously going to just use alphabet org rankings as if they were gospel?

    If your takeaway from that is anything other than WBC rankings are garbage... Well, good luck to you, you're going to need it.
    VBOX likes this.
  2. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

    May 6, 2021
    You're just not inside the circle of logic... Let me help you.

    You see, Wilder only lost to Fury because Fury is the best in the world right now.
    Why is Fury the best? Because he beat Wilder, who was previously the best.
    But why was Wilder previously the best? Because no-one else could beat him.
    But surely no-one else could beat him because he wouldn't fight anyone noteworthy? Nope, he fought top, top quality opponents - the WBC rankings say so, and WBC had Wilder as champion so it must be trustworthy.

    There is no logic here, only circular reasoning to try and justify pre-existing beliefs.

    Don't try to understand it, you'll only hurt your brain attempting to comprehend the mental gymnastics at play here.
    JDub likes this.
  3. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

    Nov 23, 2014
    I'm capable of assessing rankings and Stiverne and Ortiz are the only guys he fought who seem to have a good case for being in the top 10. Sanctioning bodies have all sorts of ridiculous ratings as many can attest

    Based on their records guys like Molina etc are journeyman at best
  4. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    His opponents' combined records in those 13 consecutive title fights were 343-14-6.:dunno

    Everyone was ranked and either unbeaten or had 1 or 2 losses, except Arreola (with 4) who was a late sub.

    And there wasn't one fighter with more than 32 wins in the bunch. So no one was falsely elevating the win totals.

    There was not a journeyman in there.

    They were all ranked contenders or champions, unbeaten or with a loss or two.

    Quit hating. Take the blinders off.

    The ATGs recognize him as one of their own. They called it. The matter is settled.

    One less thing you need to concern yourself with.
  5. Devon

    Devon Well-Known Member Full Member

    Dec 31, 2018
    Fury is definitely already an ATG
  6. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    Sep 8, 2010
    Woah woah woah...

    Absolutely not and nowhere close to being close.
    BubblesUK and JDub like this.
  7. Ted Stickles

    Ted Stickles Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jun 24, 2007
    I don’t think he could be considered an atg, and the Fury fight is a horrible example to use for his ranking. Minus the knockdowns he was dominated…. It’s the Razor Ruddock syndrome… because he gave Mike Tyson 2 good fights he must he good? Wrong
    JDub likes this.
  8. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile Clean Your Room! Full Member

    Aug 28, 2012
    Max Baer- King Levinsky, Earnie Schaff, Max Schemeling, Primo Carnera,
    Earnie Shavers- Jimmy Young, Jimmy Ellis, Ken Norton, Joe Bugner
    Ron Lyle- Buster Mathis, Oscar Bonavena, Jimmy Ellis, Earnie Shavers, Joe Bugner
    Gerry Cooney- Jimmy Young, Ron Lyle, Ken Norton
    Shannon Briggs- George Foreman, Ray Mercer
    Deontay Wilder- Luis Ortiz
  9. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

    Nov 23, 2014
    Him not being an atg based on accomplishments certainly is settled based on basic logic. His resume is no better than Povetkins who most don't see as great. Ratings by some sanctioning body are meaningless if the rankings don't stand up under scrutiny which they don't. Easy to avoid losses if you avoid quality opponents so win loss records by themselves mean little.

    Duhaupas Spizka Washington etc lost over and over to guys nobody views as elite like Teper and Charles Martin. Beating them does nothing to convince me Wilder is better than contemporaries like Povetkin and Joyce
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
    BubblesUK likes this.
  10. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

    Nov 23, 2014
    At the end of the day I don't know if Wilder will even go down as top 4 in his own era

    In addition to Wladimir Klitschko and Tyson Fury I think Alexander Povetkin and Oleksandr Usyk have a good shot at going down as greater heavyweights than Wilder and there a guys like Joyce and Makhmudov to consider
  11. blackfella96

    blackfella96 Active Member Full Member

    Jul 10, 2019
    His power is ATG status, but his resume and skill is far from it. You got to have a good body of work and skill at the minimum for me.
  12. Hanz Cholo

    Hanz Cholo Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jul 11, 2012
    1.) Ali Frazier (best Trilogy)
    2.) Bowe vs Holyfield.
    3.) Fury vs Wilder 3

    those 2 still rank higher for sure.
    But damn good fight.
    BubblesUK likes this.
  13. drenlou

    drenlou Most people DKSAB! I got your Gordo @JOKER Full Member

    Jan 22, 2015
    Fury-Wilder 3 over Tyson-Holyfield 1, and Holyfield Lewis 2? It was a great fight, but it falls short to the fights i just mentioned.
    Hanz Cholo likes this.
  14. JDub

    JDub Active Member Full Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    I'm assuming this is in reference to Joshua's resume for some strange reason, but ok, yeah add in Wlad and yeah it would be a start. He'd of fought 4 HW Champions/Ex Champions, his resume would be vastly improved. Old Wlad, Blob Ruiz and arguably Parker would crack his top 3 wins. Lol.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
    BubblesUK likes this.
  15. BrutalForeman

    BrutalForeman Active Member Full Member

    May 17, 2014
    He did do better than I expected. He should retire now, we have seen the best he has. I suppose (maybe) he could be remembered kind of like Razor Ruddock (in those Mike Tyson fights) if you are going to stretch it.