Did Williams getting shot in the abdomen affect him at all?

So after voting yes he was never the same after the shooting you put this forward?

Let me put forth what is absolutely absurd about this -

Williams is 38 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is Williams 83rd fight!
It is his 4th last fight ever.
He had lost 6 of his previous 11 fights, the wins coming against palooka's.

So you are telling us you believe in a fight with Chuvalo prime Williams some 7 years earlier without a 357 bullet in his body without having basically died would have panned out about the same?

Would Ali - Berbick have turned out the same?
Would Holmes - Spinks have been about the same?
How about a 36yo Louis vs Charles? Still a wide decision for Ezzard?
How about Joe Frazier vs Jumbo Cummings? Similar?

Maybe we need a thread added to this one - would being 38yo make any difference to fighters results as opposed to when they were at their best?

 

Yes you make it sound so outrageous but it isn’t. Both Chuvalo and Williams were veterans at this point. They both won 4 of their last 6 bouts, Williams was 77-12-1 Chuvalo was 63-17-2. williams was four years older, Taller and heavier. Since losing to Foreman, Chuvalo was no more impressive than Williams had been over a similar time. On paper it was quite even, and on film, it was a great fight.

 

So you got pre gunshot Williams beating the pants off danger men George Chuvalo, Al Blue Lewis, Mac Foster, Bob Cleroux and Al Jones all on the gamble that before the said wounding the best the big cat did was twice outpoint Billy the barber Daniels? Jack Bodel outpointed Daniels. Karl mildenberger knocked him out. That’s his signature win?

I just think it’s a bit of a reach.

 

That is Williams best win though. daniels is the highest ranked guy he beat. I wish there was more to go on but there isn’t. He took better fighters close. But close is no cigar is it?

There’s nothing wrong with being a good fighter who can’t beat championship level guys. You can still be good and not do that. Nothing wrong with that. I give Williams every credit for being one of those guys.

He’s right up there with Renaldo Snipes. For me, Williams is right up there with Roy Tiger Williams and Jeff Merritt. Exciting. Good value. Not championship class

 

Who are you and what have you done with Choklab?

 

I guess it comes down to whether you think that Machen and Terrell, and perhaps Folley, were better than Chuvalo, Cleroux, Jones, O'Halloran and Foster.

If you think that they were, then you would have to conclude that the pre gunshot Williams, would probably have done significantly better against this group of fighters.

 

But Williams was not better or as good as either Machen or Terrell because he did not beat either of them when it counted so I am left with a guy who beat Daniels.

Mind, To be fair, prime Williams was a lot better than O’Halloran though.

 

Dear oh dear.

 

I think he would beat jack O’Halloran before he was injured.

 

Yes Chuvalo and Mac Foster were both better than Terrell at the time Williams beat him because back when Williams could actually beat Terrell, Ernie wasn’t that hard to beat. When Williams could beat Terrell, Ernie hadn’t fought any names and still couldn’t string more than 8 wins in a row without dropping a decision. He was outpointed by Wayne Bethea just 5 fights before for Christ sakes. Before that it was some guy called Johnny Gray who actually beat Terrell twice.

When Williams could not beat Terrell, Ernie was a better fighter.

After losing to Williams Terrell went on a 15 fight streak over names like Chuvalo, Doug Jones, Eddie Machen, bob foster, Zora Foley and Amos Johnson. All guys that were better than anybody Ernie had fought before Williams. And of course he beat Williams too. He had turned a corner. In fact Nobody but Ali could beat Terrell at that time and he fought everybody.

 

I would guess that he was about 95% as good as Machen and Terrell.