Did you ever see Hagler ducking anyone?

Look up the definition of G in the dictionary, there's a picture of Hagler. The ducking that goes on nowadays is pitiful if you look back at the greats.

 

King Khan has a slight case of having his head up his own ass :deal

 

I guess. . . I don't know, though. . It still just seemed like he was hiding behind a facade because he knew that Leonard made him eat his words. . . Being part of the younger generation, and not even being born when the fight happened, I have seen the fight more times than just about any other fight, adn I come to the same conclusion everytime - 116-112 Leonard. . . A close, but clear decision for Leonard. I can't see how Hagler won, unless you really just score aggression over the other criteria. . . My generation is kind of split on the fight, though - those who have a tendency to be a fan of aggressive, come forward punchers say that Hagler won, and Leonard had to "steal rounds" that he really didn't win, in order to win the fight. I still didn't see much blatant "round stealing" by Leonard (maybe the two extra rounds the judge who scored it 118-110). . . But meh, we could prolly go on forever about who won lol. . .

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I agree - 118-110 is wide. I had it 116-112, and do every time I score it.

Leonard came out of retirement to fight Hagler, though, and he had been fighting 13 pounds south of Hagler; I feel he was justified in requesting some stipulations. . . Jesus, but he had been COMPLETELY out of the sport for what? 2 years? 3 years? And Hagler finally talks enough **** to get him to come fight him. . Leonard shuts him up, and rather than giving his props, he makes up a facade about corruption, and robberies to hide behind. . And he quits. . . Those actions just don't align with the man Hagler was in the ring, and outside of the ring for the most part. His ego finally came full, head-on, and was unleashed. . . He revealed that he did have some mental midgetry in him. . .

So yes, whoever really "won" the fight is aside from the point - as is Hagler admitting Leonard won. . . But to SLAG OFF a guy who just went back, and forth with you for 12 rounds? To give no respect at all? I would say that is definitely a rarity. . . Even most guys with major beef before the fight, will congratulate, and give each other props post fight. . .


But do you have a link about Hagler asking for a rematch, and the interview where he discusses the stipulations Leonard wanted for rematch, etc.?

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Not at all bruv. . I'm wrong all the time, and I admit when I'm wrong. . Hell, nobody knows everything about boxing, and I certainly don't even consider myself a boxing expert. . But boxing is so subjective, so I feel like as long as you can support your argument, or your stance, your opinion is just as good as the next man's. . . The guys I am currently debating with, know more about boxing than me. . . As do plenty of others on here. . . I always admit when I'm wrong. . .

I just feel like no boxer is above constructive criticism. . . And I'm going to express my criticism of Hagler, and the way he acted, and how he quit the sport - IMO it showed mental midgetry.

 

Nah I'm not getting at you, I saw the respect you gave to Hagler. As to a link I don't. It was in an interview in KO Magazine....the editorial in there and in World Boxing at the time were pretty scathing towards Leonard as it was public knowledge he'd demanded the public admission of loss or no rematch.

Just one teeny quibble, you say arguably the best southpaw...I always thought Hagler was arguably the best switch hitter as in his early days he could move seamlessly between southpaw and orthodox when throwing combinations, which is something I've not seen any other modern fighter do so well....but it's a teeny quibble :good

 

Also with Hearns, Leonard said he wouldn't give him a rematch after their first fight (before Ray retired), unless Hearns came out to the public and admitted that he was unable to continue at the time of the stoppage. Ridiculous stuff, he obviously kneww Hearns and Hagler would never make these concessions in public.

Hearns would have beaten Ray in a rematch, especially before 1985, as he did in 1989 (and incidentally got robbed).

 

Oh yes, his ability to transition between southpaw, and orthodox was brilliant. . . I feel like his best, most effective stance, and more natural stance was southpaw, despite being ambidextrous. As far as southpaws, it's between Hagler, and Pea. . I personally would give Pea the slight edge as far as best southpaws, but as far as switch hitting, Hagler did it best :good

 

But doesn't Leonard at least admit that Hearns won the rematch?

HUGE fan of Tommy Hearns. . . I'm about to change my avi pic to the picture I got with him when I met him at hte Abraham/Dirrell fight. . . But I feel that Leonard beat hearns when it really counted. . BUt hearns def. won the rematch.

 

Nice avatar, that's awesome! How was he?

Leonard did beat him when it mattered, but I think if they rematched while both were still prime, Tommy would have won, Ray caught lightning in a bottle that night.

Leonard does admit he lost the rematch, but that's because it was a clear robbery, there's little room for debate.

The Hagler-Leonard was a close fight that could have gone either way, and you have to see it from the perspective of the fighter involved, they're going to feel they won and nothing you can do will convince them. Hence, I understand Marvin feeling like he was robbed, he had already grown tired of the sport and was considering retiring after the Hearns fight.

 

Thanks man! He was really nice, and polite, but very soft-spoken, and truly "a man of few words." (but I didn't bother him for long either) Haha I was accidently standing in front of him trying to take pictures while his son was fighting (and somehow I didn't recognize him beforehand), and I heard a low, stern, but quiet voice say "excuse me son, could you please move." And I turn around, and it's HEARNS! Haha I started apologizing so many times, and instantly got the **** out of his way. . . Then after his son's fight was over, I approached him and just said "Mr. Hearns, I'm a big fan of yours, and I think you're a great boxer." And then he just smiled and said "thank you." THen I politely asked him for a quick picture, and he obliged. . . Thanked him again, and then left. .

He was with his family, and I didn't want to bother him too much, so didn't really have any conversations. He was there with all his kids, and they just all had this beaming, proud look on their face when I was asking for a picture, and complementing him. . Like "yeah, that's my dad"!


I don't know. . I think Hearns/Leonard is the type of matchup like Pac/Marquez - they could fight 10 times, and each would probably win 3, or 4, and draw the other 2. Hell, fight 100 times, and no "true" winner would ever be determined.

 

Herol Graham. I heard Hagler and Leonard wanted nothing to do with that guy

 

I wish the internet was around back then, so then we could get a better idea of any verbal exchanges - calling the other out - beginning negotiations that couldn't be worked out because of country, venue, purse, etc. . .


Are there any fans reading that were hardcore fans back then, who could verify if there was any excahnges between the two camps?

 

most of the time, and with Hagler he seemed to want that acclaim as the best fighter around. When he got that after Hearns, you could see his motivation leave him. He got pizza hut and coke commercials and right guard antiperspirant, and he seemed to want to do that once he reached it over the actual fighting. I think he knew he didn't have it in him anymore to fight or he would have done it. Hearns and Duran were the ones of the fab 4 who always seemed to have the motivation even past 40 years old.

 

Hagler retired because he felt that he was robbed and that he was disgusted with the sport, in addition to feeling as if he were declining by the fight. he's said this over, and over, and over, and i'll take his word for it.