Did Zora Folley and Eddie Machen deserve title shots against Floyd Patterson?

I'd say yes, they were perennial top fighters through the era.

 

In agreement .

 

Over Pete Rademacher, Roy Harris, Brian London, Tom McNeeley or Ingo .. LOL .. get ready for Mr. Bubbles to surface with his lovefest/revisionist/rosecolorlens version of D'Amatoism ..

 

two things

I am not sure why Machen was felt to have to fight Folley to get a shot at Patterson. Machen seems far the more impressive going into 1958. He was undefeated, had KO'd Jackson & Valdes, and beaten Baker.

Folley had a couple of KO defeats back there. His big wins as far as I can see were a decision over Valdes after Valdes had lost to Machen, and two split decisions over Bethea.

Going in, Machen seems the obvious top contender.

My second point--I don't think Roy Harris deserves to be put in the same class as Rademacher, London, and McNeeley. He really had a pretty good record. He was undefeated, had wins over Baker and Pastrano, and a few other trial horse types. Frankly, looking at his and Folley's resumes up to that time, I could see rating Harris higher. Pastrano was rated above Bethea, and Baker had twice beaten Valdes. So Harris really had the better wins, and no blotches at all on his record.

 

I haven't seen anyone say they didn't deserve a shot in 1958. The point @choklab made, if I'm not mistaken, is that Machen's and Folley's apparently drab draw lessened the interest in a fight between anyone of them and Patterson. A business point of view, not sporting, which might explain why Cus and Floyd went for Harris instead. Doesn't make it right, just a possible explanation.

And, as I posted in another thread, this article at least backs up that hypothesis:

"Though Harris rates behind Zora Folley (now No. 1) and Eddie Machen in the National Boxing Association ratings, only Folley and Machen are complaining that they were bypassed for this title fight. This was only justice, a deserved punishment for their San Francisco fiasco."

https://www.si.com/vault/1958/08/18/566674/the-student-vs-the-professor

 

Well I believe Folley and Machen should have had a shot, I just understand why they didn’t get a shot and that lesser regarded fighters did get a shot.

Champions fought in big fights once or twice a year and the logical challenger needed to be winning or coming off a decisive win in order to face the champion.

Machen and Foley blew an opportunity one time because they drew with each other. Why should a champion have to wait for a rerun of an eliminator?

The second time they both lost to Europeans just before the champion was ready to fight them.

After that the champion was tied up in a three fight, three year series.

It is not fair, I just get how it was.

I don’t see why anybody should be expect the people of that time to realise Foley and Machen would beat better fighters in the future than some of the guys who did get title fights.

However, if you look at the timeline, According to ratings Moore was #1, Jackson was#1, Harris was #3, London #2, Johansson #1. So Floyd did pretty well fighting top guys.

 

Who was rating London the #2 contender?

That seems absurd. He was coming off a loss to Cooper.

Frankly, a fringe top ten placement is about the best I think London could reasonably expect.

Jackson, Harris, and Johansson were in fact highly rated and deservedly so.

 

Undoubtedly,heres were they ranked during Patterson's reign.
1956
5.Machen
9.Folley

1957
1. Machen
2.Folley

1958
2.Folley
7.Machen

1959
1.Folley
3.Machen

1960
3.Machen
4.Folley

1961

2.Machen
3.Folley

 

I think Machen should have gotten a shot w/o having to fight Folley.

I don't think it any travesty that Harris got a shot rather than Folley.

Harris I think had to do military training. Folley was fighting journeymen and so moves up in the ratings. I don't see that as how things should have been done. The Ring, and apparently the NBA, carried the staying active part too far. Just fighting second-raters moved Folley up in the ratings.

Remember, we are looking at the situation in 1958. What these men did later is not part of the equation.