Did Zora Folley and Eddie Machen deserve title shots against Floyd Patterson?

Pastrano-Moore. Almost every ringside press scored the fight heavily for Moore. Don't know why you brought this fight up to "boost" pastrano . Especially since Moore showed up fat at 43 years old

Maxim...he beat a washed up Maxim in 55 who was losing to everyone at the time. Does this win mean anything?

Harold Johnson never fought for the heavyweight title. Doesn't meet my criteria. And like I said, I thought johnson clearly won

Tom Mcneeley. Yes this counts.


So mcneeley and Maxim compared to Valdes beating Charles, cockell Jackson and London


Who rates higher as a heavyweight pastrano or Valdes?

 

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=PzEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5692,4331551&hl=en

I didn’t lie, the press favored Folley 4 to 1


You know Edward, you are all about numbers which is great, but you never take into consideration if a fighter is in his prime or not when the fight took place.

Your Last sentence “he blew it”

What did he blow? He didn’t lose. So why should the number 1 and number 2 contenders get bypassed when they didn’t lose in the ring?

 

Since you talk up pastrano as a heavyweight so much

"Years after the wonderful fencing duel between Erskine and Pastrano, Angelo Dundee acknowledged Erskine as a master of his trade. Dundee had been confident that his man Willie could come back from England with a nice little win on his ledger. “No excuses,” Angelo said. “No cop-outs. Erskine was brilliant and the better man on the night. I was surprised at his skill. If he had only been a bigger man, and if he could have developed a heavier punch, he would have been a world beater. As it was, he beat Pastrano and a lot of other good fighters. Willie and I left England knowing we had to re-think our plans for the future.”
My father, explaining why that fight continues to stand out in his mind, said, “It was the finest exhibition of classic boxing I have ever seen. They tricked and slipped and feinted each other all night long. They baited each other with all manner of subtle shifts and manoeuvres. It was a master class in boxing at its best and you didn’t want it to end. It was televised at the time and I don’t know whether it is still available or lost in the archives. But it would serve as an excellent training film for any young professional.”
For Willie Pastrano, the defeat was a psychological blow which continued to nag at him on his return home. He entertained serious thoughts of quitting the game and pursuing less rigorous pleasures. Angelo Dundee had other ideas. Joe Erskine’s lack of size and a commanding punch kept coming back into Angelo’s mind. Pastrano was no less handicapped and he was hardly likely to win the world heavyweight championship. Floyd Patterson was on the throne, Ingemar Johansson had all but killed Eddie Machen and Sonny Liston was thundering across the plains like a charging buffalo. “I boxed heavyweights for four years till I realised Sonny Liston wasn't my cup of tea"

 

I have articles stating baker hardly trained for the Harris fight due to severe brittle hands injuries...Baker was coming off losses to Besmanoff and carter and would lose 6 of his 10 final fights...he was also unrated in 1957.

How much does this win by Harris actually mean?

 

Pastrano was a highly ranked heavyweight, I acknowledge. What did he do with that high ranking? Well nothing impressive really.

Folley in 57 had no big wins, but he was riding off the coat tails of big wins over bethea (beat Ezzard Charles) and Nino Valdes (who had a monster 1957 year )

In 58, Folley beat world title challenger radamacher and joe bygraves. He also drew with Eddie Machen whom you rate very highly

Not that impressive, but The ring and nba thought enough of Folley to promote him to number one in mid 1958


I thought Johnson clearly beat pastrano . I’ll never give Willie the credit you are giving him for that win.


Answer me:

Who had the better heavyweight career Valdes or Pastrano?

 

Valdes destroyed a fighter in 1 round who outboxed pastrano at his own game

Valdes also stopped London, whom outpointed pastrano

 

Why did they have to fight a title eliminator in the first place? Was Machens win over hurricane Jackson not enough?

How come Machen and a Folley had to fight in eliminators but London Harris mcneeley radamacher didn’t? Seems like a cop out by d amato, meant to disqualify each challenger by any means necessary


Bad effort. Where is your evidence of a bad effort? Perhaps it was just a bad clash of styles? The rematch was a stinker as well


Plenty of top fighters have turned in stinkers because both fighters counterpunched the entire fight

 

So you can make a case for harris above Valdes.

But pastrano above Valdes? I think not