Dirrell, Froch, and The Great Train Robbery

Loudon · Apr 18, 2015

DSG496 said: ↑

:deal

I'd be interested too hear peoples reactions if a british fighter went to USA, lands one punch then runs for the rest of the round, and decides to fall over as soon as any pressure is applied and wins a 12 round UD.
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You guys need to learn the difference between footwork, reflexes, and running away.

Carl's a great fighter, not a great boxer. So he wants everybody to fight him, just like his fans do. But when that doesn't happen, his opponent takes heavy criticism for it, because the fans feel robbed of a great fight, like they witnessed against the likes of Kessler. Andre Dirrell did not run away. Not standing toe to toe and moving, feinting, and jumping in and out of range, does not constitute as running. Again, this isn't a Rocky movie. It's the art of boxing. Hitting without getting hit. Carl missed with his jab all night, and threw wild left hooks, and was off balance. Andre countered him, and landed many more clean shots. Therefore, he deserved to win the fight.

Loudon · Apr 18, 2015

Hitmanstyle said: ↑

Good luck to Dirrell in his up coming fight. I had him winning on my card but on the official cards its pretty clear he lost the fight flopping around like a girl, whining and sprinting away from the action. I did score the fight for him but I can totally see how his shenanigans and cowardice turned the judges off. Frankly it turned me off too. Glad he didn't win....but in reality I like everyone else knew what was up that night...wasn't the first time....won't be the last.

I'm totally okay with people saying that Andre won that fight. I agree. But anyone who says Ms Dirrelly got robbed has to admit that the manly innards within were somewhat discussed by his performance.
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I can't understanding your way of thinking, calling it cowardice. That's absurd.

Andre's a boxer, not a fighter. Don't penalise him for not entertaining the fans by engaging in a shoot out.

Loudon · Apr 18, 2015

DirtyDan said: ↑

All I'm reading in this thread for the people picking Froch is that they didn't like Dirrell's behavior.

So what? That still doesn't change the fact that Dirrell got robbed and almost knock out Froch.

Froch did absolutely nothing in that fight to warrant a victory.
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Carl's given us some truly great fights over the years. So it's now got to the point where unless he has a great tear up, the majority of his fans aren't happy. Then along comes a guy like Dirrell who isn't going to fight him, because he's a technical boxer with great speed and reflexes. And because the crowd don't see heads bouncing around in a macho tear up, a guy like Andre becomes the bad guy. He gets labelled as a coward and a runner, because the casuals want blood. It's a good job Sweet Pea isn't around today.

Loudon · Apr 18, 2015

conraddobler said: ↑

Yeah! even though Dirrell landed all the clean blows, he was .. a big jerk! Sure he had the clean, effective work, but his behavior was so ungentlemanly. When I score a fight, I like to score behavior first and foremost. If a guy runs me the wrong way, even if he's outclassing the other chap, I dock him points. I call then bad behavior deductions. When I scored Dirrell versus Froch I scored it for Froch, but that's because I took 6 points way from Dirrell for bad behavior!
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:good

Loudon · Apr 18, 2015

the factor said: ↑

This was a definitely a robbery. Dirrell won 9 rnds. This is how it happened. British
fans screamed and jumped up out of their seats at every punch Froch threw whether it landed or not. The italian judge and Van der Wiele [who is normally a decent judge] did not have the baulls to go against the home town fighter. These guys are professional judges and know how to score a fight. They just didn't have the intestinal fortitude to put down an honest score in the hugely bias atmosphere of Frochs home town and should have been suspended by the WBC. By the way Aquamarine and a few others here [even some who thought Dirrell won] the 1st criteria for scoring is effective punches landing in the scoring area with the knuckle part of the glove. If they are equal you then look at power. If it's still equal you go to the aggressor then ring generalship and defense. You don't go against a guy just because you don't like his style and you can only deduct points when a ref orders it.
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:good

conraddobler · Apr 18, 2015

Aquamarine said: ↑

It's not ungentlemanly behaviour per se (i wouldn't have minded a bit of name calling or face pulling because Carl would have probably had him crying he's so sensitive) its things like excessively holding which should get you point deductions (in fact he had one if I remember right) he was warned multiple times too so he was doing it intentionally & excessively! He was also flopping to his knees all the time too which if I'm not mistaken is willfully stalling a fight.. All of which I could accept had it been done once or twice but he was suffering from a mild case of narcolepsy at one point so yes I stand by my post. He should stop flopping around the canvases of boxing rings like a demented seal pup & find another sport... Downhill skiing maybe!
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but you're A-OK with body-slamming and repeated rabbit punches.

Hitmanstyle · Apr 18, 2015

Loudon said: ↑

I can't understanding your way of thinking, calling it cowardice. That's absurd.

Andre's a boxer, not a fighter. Don't penalise him for not entertaining the fans by engaging in a shoot out.
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I told you I scored the fight for him. I told you I thought he won. What do I have to cup his *alls too?

I'm all for hit and not get hit....but hit, flop and moan. Not my cup of tea.

If it makes you feel any better I very impressed with his performance against AA. I thought he had learned his lessons from the Froch fight well.

And no I'm not one of those idiots that thinks he was faking it. I feel sorry for him cause he clearly got his bell rung.

In generally I feel sorry for him all round. He seems like a nice guy but he got ****ed over by the super six. And at 31 he's just not going to make the money he otherwise would have made. Also I hope he didn't suffer serious brain damage from the AA fight....but we'll never know.

He's in serious **** against DeGale though. That guy is no joke. Dirrell could win but it'll be a hard nights work. He might not win and if he doesn't that'll probably be it of his career....

KillSomething · Apr 18, 2015

Dirrell didn't do sheeeeeeeiiit in that fight. One of the worst fights I've ever seen. Nothing but Dirrell running, hugging, and getting slapped in the back of the head.

Honestly they both should have lost because neither guy landed enough to win rounds. I leaned toward Froch most rounds because he actually tried to like...fight.

Hitmanstyle · Apr 18, 2015

KillSomething said: ↑

Dirrell didn't do sheeeeeeeiiit in that fight. One of the worst fights I've ever seen. Nothing but Dirrell running, hugging, and getting slapped in the back of the head.

Honestly they both should have lost because neither guy landed enough to win rounds. I leaned toward Froch most rounds because he actually tried to like...fight.
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I think you have to know the OP is a Froch hater or Dirrell fan. Only strong emotions could compel someone to want to watch that fight. You couldn't pay me money to watch that **** again.

Hitmanstyle · Apr 18, 2015

Aquamarine said: ↑

Loudon have you discussed this subject before on here? I don't get why you're so angry now..

Does this **** dictate your life man or what? It's not normal behaviour crying about Dirrell 5 years or whatever after the event of said subject that upset you in the first place happened!
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Probably a Calzaghe fan. Those motha fuuker be tricky

ellerbe · Apr 18, 2015

conraddobler said: ↑

Yeah! even though Dirrell landed all the clean blows, he was .. a big jerk! Sure he had the clean, effective work, but his behavior was so ungentlemanly. When I score a fight, I like to score behavior first and foremost. If a guy runs me the wrong way, even if he's outclassing the other chap, I dock him points. I call then bad behavior deductions. When I scored Dirrell versus Froch I scored it for Froch, but that's because I took 6 points way from Dirrell for bad behavior!
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lmfao you schooled the **** out of that aquaret@rd

KillSomething · Apr 18, 2015

Found this from the last time I watched it like 5 years ago....

KillSomething said:

Round 1
Froch 3 rights to body, Dirrell 1 right to body, counter right on Froch's way in, multiple jabs. No damaging punches, no fighter in control, Froch's jab not landing, Dirrell's touching barely.
Dirrell 10-9 (based on more punches)

Round 2
All jabs for first half...no effective shots, Froch touches Dirrell more with jabs (4-3). Both fighters throw 1 or 2 combos and miss. Even round, nobody in control at all.

10-10 Even (based on nothing being accomplished by either fighter.) Case can be made that Froch landed a few more punches, but I can't say he did enough to take the round.

Round 3
Dirrell begins running. Lands 4 straight lefts to the body and a straight left but Froch lands a hard straight right as Dirrell leaps back, staggering him.

10-9 Froch (based on ring control and the better punch landed, which hurt Dirrell) could also go to Dirrell for most punches landed.

Round 4
Dirrell lands early with 3 straight lefts to the head and body and a hook. Froch comes on with multiple light jabs and a good right hook to the body. Dirrell bleeding from the nose and mouth. Froch lands a cross and hook with Dirrell in the corner, Dirrell holds on.

Dirrell 10-9 (based on slightly more punches landed) Could also go to Froch for similar amount of punches landed, but with more damage and better ring control, or even round.

Round 5
Dirrell lands hard straight right, and a light one to the body. Lands a jab and gets tied up. Froch throws him for ippon. They trade jabs, Froch lands a nice one. Dirrell holds on, Froch lands short right hook inside. Dirrell holds again, Froch attempts to strike on the break. Dirrell is running a bit now.

Froch 10-9 (based on ring control and aggression with even amount of punches landed, none particularly effective.) Could easily go the other way if you favor slick fighters over aggressive ones. Could also be scored even.

Round 6
Dirrell with jab to the body. Froch applies pressure, Dirrell falls while trying to escape. Dirrell lands straight left and grabs Froch. Dirrell lands straight left and a jab, Froch holds on and Dirrell falls again. Froch misses, Dirrell holds. Froch lands 2 short rights on the inside and a hook as Dirrell backs out. Froch lands a jab as Dirrell runs, Dirrell counters with straight left, Froch touches him with a weak straight right in return, and Dirrell holds on. They trade jabs, Froch lands light straight right. Froch lands right hook to the body, Dirrell grabs on. Froch lands short right hook and quick uppercut in the clich, followed by a short left hook. They trade misses, Dirrell goes down as Froch posts up with the let hand. This round is where the fight got ugly.

10-9 Froch (based on ring control, effective aggression, and more and better punches landed)

Round 7
Froch lands lunging straight right, Dirrell counters with hard jab and holds on. They trade jabs. Dirrell lands nice straight left to the body followed by jab to the head. Dirrell lands a few light jabs. Froch lands nice jab and quick right uppercut to the body. Dirrell holds on. Froch lands straight right, Dirrell lands straight left. Dirrell holds on and attempts to turn away as Froch swings away with his free hand, landing a right hook to the body and 4 rights to the back and side of Dirrell's head. Ref calls time and warns Dirrell for holding. Dirrell lands straight left to the body and a jab upstairs, then holds. Dirrell misses and holds, Froch lands 2 chopping rights inside and a left hook on the way out as Dirrell lands a jab. Dirrell holds, Froch places his left forearm under Dirrell's neck and lands a chopping right then a left as Dirrell turns to object to Froch's ungentlemanly maneuvers. Ref basically tells him to gtfo. Froch lands a left hook and Dirrell holds again. Froch is visibly annoyed. Dirrell dives in and holds, Froch attempts to spin out and cave in the back of Dirrell's head but misses. Dirrell receives another warning. Froch grabs Dirrell by the side of the head and lands 3 short rights. Direll pulls away to complain and is hit by a right hook, a left hook, and a right hook in the process. Froch lands a jab to the body and a right uppercut. They land hooks simultaneously, with Dirrell's knocking Froch away from him.

10-9 Froch (based on greater number of punches landed and effective aggression.) Could go to Dirrell if you don't count Froch's punches on the inside.

Round 8
They trade jabs for the first minute, Dirrell landing the greater number and 2 straight lefts. Dirrell misses and falls in front of Froch. Dirrell lands beautiful overhand right over Froch's jab. Froch lands right hook to the body, Dirrell holds on and is warned again. Froch lands a jab and then a right hook to the head and a right uppercut as Dirrell holds and pushes him backward. Dirrell throws a powerful hook-cross-hook combo, but the hooks are blocked. Dirrell lands a straight left. Froch pursues him, landing a jab and huge left hook to the head. Dirrell seems to take it well and holds on. Froch chases him across the ring, landing a straight right. Dirrell holds and Froch lands a right uppercut to the body. Dirrell holds again, Froch lands a jab, Dirrell holds.

10-9 Froch (based on more clean punches, more effective punches, more clean/effective punches, effective aggression, and ring control.) Clear Froch round.

Round 9
They trade jabs. Froch lands a right to the body and left hook to the head with Dirrell in the corner. Froch chases him, landing jabs at will. Dirrell lands a straight left. Dirrell has swelling under his left eye. Dirrell lands a hard counter jab. Dirrell holds 1:30 through the round. Dirrell lands a nice straight right/left hook combo. Froch lands a jab downstairs and a right upstairs. Dirrell holds. Dirrell lands a jab and holds, Froch takes two swipes at the back of his head. Froch measures with the left and lands a right to the back of Dirrell's head as he ducks below the waist. Dirrell complains and Froch takes the opportunity to do the exact same thing. Froch is warned for blows behind the head. Dirrell lands a double jab and Froch lands a single one. Dirrell holds and Froch swings at the back of his neck. Froch lands a jab and a right hook, Dirrell holds.

10-9 Froch (based on more effective punching, more punches landed, ring control, and effective aggression) Clear Froch round.

Round 10
Dirrell outjabs Froch in the first minute, Froch blocks the power shots but can't land his own. Froch holds on. Dirrel holds and is warned. Froch lands a hard jab, Dirrell holds and Froch answers with a short right hook inside. Dirrell holds and eats another right hook. Ref deducts a point from Dirrell. Dirrell holds and Froch is unsuccessful in hitting him. Froch lands a hard jab. Dirrell lands a hard overhand left and puts Froch in a headlock. Dirrell lands a hard left jab and two light right hands. Dirrell lands two hard lefts off the ropes, and Froch stumbles to the ropes and covers up as Dirrell thorws, only one getting through. Froch grabs Dirrell with one hand and swings with the other, hitting Dirrell with a right uppercut to the body. Dirrell holds on to end the round.

9-9 Even. (Dirrell based on effective punching, but the deduction evens it.)

Round 11
Froch backs Dirrell into a corner and throws an 11 punch combination, which Dirrell evades by bobbing and weaving, coming out with two hard left hooks. Dirrell lands a hard jab. Dirrell throws two straight lefts. Froch blocks them but is still driven back. Dirrell throws two more lefts and they land. Froch holds on. Froch lands a big hook, Dirrell holds. Dirrell lands a good left hook and holds on. Froch doubles a right hook to the body and head, Dirrell backs him up with a flurry of straight punches. Froch attempts to return, but Dirrell bobs and weaves, then ties Froch up. Both fighters land short punches and Dirrell holds. They trade right hands, and Dirrell lands two chopping lefts to Froch's head. Dirrell holds on as Froch tries to punch. Dirrell backs Froch up with 5 hard punches to the head and body. Froch backs him up and the round end in a clinch.

10-9 Dirrell (based on clean, effective punches, good defense, and effective aggression) Best round of the fight.

Round 12
They trade vicious jabs for the first minute and Dirrell lands a hard straight right. Froch seems tired and Dirrell looks reinvigorated. Dirrell comes forward with a combo and holds. Froch nails him with a right uppercut off the ropes. Dirrell holds again and both fighters work inside. They trade a few jabs before Dirrell comes forward with 5 hard punches to the body and head, then ties up. Froch pressures Dirrell to the ropes, but can't land. Dirrell ties him up. Froch lands a few punches to Dirrell's body and is tied up again. The fight ends with Froch punching Dirrell on the ropes.

10-9 Dirrell (based on effective aggression, and clean punching)

6 rounds Froch, 4 rounds Dirrell, 2 even. 115-113 Froch.

Whew. I actually enjoyed watching it the second time. I think the 6th-9th round were just so awful that it clouds our judgment of the fight, because it actually started and ended very well and competitively. That's a really tough fight to score, because neither fighter got hurt very often, and a lot of the fight was spent in the clinch. My score obviously has a lot of wiggle room, but I can definitely see all three of the judges scores as respectable. If I was judging the fight as a whole, I would have it about even, but Froch was doing enough to take rounds, and they add up.

If the ref would have deducted a point earlier, we might have seen Dirrell dispense with the holding and fight like he did in the last rounds, which in my opinion would have resulted in a UD for Dirrell or a KO for Froch. It would have been a much more exciting fight.
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the factor · Apr 18, 2015

Aquamarine said: ↑

Yes I watched it ages ago myself to satisfy myself & i remember i scored it for Froch having taken away all those points i feel Dirrell deserved to be deducted... He negated himself to such an extent & that was for one reason! Froch! So yes if people are giving him points he never actually won on the official cards I am taking away some that were never actually deducted! No f*g behaviour on Dirrells part & he would have won.. Don't ask me to watch again & give precise scoring & deductions because I don't have the time or the inclination & nor do I really give a **** about it! But to have a period for a tampon like Dirrell is pure effing queeeership.

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Don't watch it again and don't give us your score. No one is interested you don't have a clue. No wonder decisions in boxing are so controversial when there are so many people that have no idea how to score a fight.

J.BULLA · Apr 19, 2015

I had Dirrell winning but he did himself no favours by continually falling over

He could have won the fight more easily, but the falling and whining ended up costing him

newby johnson · Apr 19, 2015

tdf1974 said: ↑

needs a poll?
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That's what I'm thinking (tho I think we already had one one time).

I can't understand why people are saying Carl won this.

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