Discuss CONTEMPORARY (i.e, May 1900) accounts of Jeffries-Corbett I

I've posted the round by rounds Corbett vJeffries fight on this thread,and the quotes from 4 papers the next day.
I've posted Corbetts manager' s opinion of the Corbett McCoy fight as personally admitted to him by McCoy[faked ] meanwhile you've posted **** all.

Corbett's manager Geo Considine stated he met McCoy in London a couple of months after the fight and McCoy admitted he laid down for Corbett,he said he assumed Considine knew about it.
Considine went back to NY and confronted Corbett ,he stated that Corbett at first denied bieng complicit in a fake but after being caught out in a couple of inaccuracies admitted he knew McCoy was going to lay down.

Considine asked him why he hadnt told him of the fix and Corbett said "what for ? So you could tell Senator Tim Ryan who would make
McCoy fight on the level as the Senator did with the Maher and McCoy match?
I didn't know I could lick McCoy on the level, and I was glad to know he was going to lay down"

Source? The San Francisco Call 3rd Nov 1900.
As posted .


"Later that year Corbett scored a five-round
knockout over the former middleweight champion, Kid McCoy, in
New York City, which was widely reported as a "fake." Corbett
always claimed afterward that he fought honestly, but McCoy was
notoriously devious, and it is likely that he feigned the knockout
to achieve a betting coup. Dissatisfaction with the outcome of
this fight was largely responsible for public boxing promotions
being made illegal in New York from 1901 until 1911"


"On August 30, 1900, McCoy fought a dubious contest with former World Heavyweight champion James J. Corbett, being counted out in the 5th round, after a performance (or rather lack of ) that raised eyebrows of many present. Although, both Corbett and McCoy protested otherwise, their fight went down in many people’s minds as a fake"


"August 30 - James J. Corbett KOs Kid McCoy, five rounds, Madison Square Garden. Rumors surface that McCoy took a dive. The question is never satisfactorily answered. The same day the Horton law, governing boxing in New York since 1896, is repealed by the Lewis Law. Boxing will continue in New York on a club membership basis only until 1911"

"
By the 20th round, Jeffries' corner was in a panic. Manager Brady dismissed trainer Tommy Ryan from the corner and took charge himself with the simple but direct order, "Knock him out or lose your title!"
Such words were music to Corbett's ears. All he had to do was stay upright for the last five rounds and he would be Heavyweight Champion once again.
Jeffries dispensed with trying to box his old mentor and now began to stalk Corbett around the ring, looking for an opening. Corbett danced away from any threat through the 22nd round.
Midway through the 23rd round, Corbett leaned back to avoid a Jeffries blow, bounced off the ropes and was put on the canvas by a short right hand. The gallant effort was over in a blink of an eye.
Corbett found himself embraced by the public as never before, after his gallant effort to regain the title. The adoration was short-lived, as his next fight, a five-round knockout over Kid McCoy, was widely believed to be a fix"



I think you are mentally deranged.:yep

 

You probably could find a newspaper that had Jeffries ahead at the time of the stoppage, but it would not be representative.

We have to compare as many accounts as possible, and the picture that leaves us with is that Corbett was almost certainly ahead, for whatever that is worth.

 

Here is the NY Times detailed round by round. The fight took place in New York. Once again the fight was even, or had Jeffries in the lead prior to the KO in round 23. Read the report, and score the rounds as they did.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9506E6D91E31E033A25751C1A9639C946197D6CF

 

Round 1 Corbett.
Round 2 Corbett.
Round 3 Corbett.
Round 4 Jeffries
Round 5 Even.
Round 6 Jeffries.
Round 7 Jeffries.
Round 8 Jeffries.
Round 9 Corbett. (Clearly, could this have been a 10 8 with that wording?)
Round 10 Corbett. Opened up a cut on Jeffries.
Round 11 Corbett. Clearly again.
Round 12 Corbett. Closer though, maybe a draw.
Round 13 Jeffries. He did stagger Corbett at one stage.
Round 14 Corbett.
Round 15 Corbett.
Round 16 Corbett. Seems to be on a good run at the moment.
Round 17 Jeffries. Big shot landed but workrate did sound lower.
Round 18 Corbett. Could easily be even, but his workrate sounded more.
Round 19 Jeffries. Knock down makes it a 10-8, though corbett still landing.
Round 20 Corbett.
Round 21 Corbett.
Round 22 Jeffries. Close, but Corbett starting to weaken.
Round 23 Jeffries by KO.

Corbett 13 Jeffries 9 (including KO round) 1 Draw 1.
Jeffries did have the knockdown to possibly pully him up.

It seems that Corbett was clearly landing the most regularly from about rounds 9 to 20. Jeffries though did seem to be hitting and landing harder when he did actually land. It is easy to see why Jeffries was said to have been outboxed. I think it was clearly Jim Corbetts fight by the sound of things Round 21, but in saying that, it was a competive fight where Jeffries was in the fight and was still causing Corbett some problems.

 

Will have to look at some of those controversial rounds in time when i get the chance.

Round 12, i think it is could be a game changer. The odds were down to even for this round in the betting for this round, but that does not mean it was even in that particular round! Corbett was the underdog, and he had to be winning the fight (or the round) to close his odds from long odds to even odds. If the fight had been even at this point (during the current rounds), the odds would have been strongly in Jeffries favour since he was expected to both outclass and outfinish Corbett.

As for those body shots, Corbett took them in sparring for weeks on end when he was world champion. He wasnt wincing, he was play acting:bbb What is wrong with your imagination.

 

Bottom line Tom Sharkey ,[giving Corbett 6lbs instead of receiving 30lbs ,]performed much better against Corbett but was robbed of a clear cut victory by Corbett's second jumping in the ring when Corbettt was in big trouble and forcing a dsq.

 

That is probably a styles thing though.

Sharkey applied more sustained pressure than Jeffries, or Fitzsimmons for that matter, and therfore likley had a better style for sealing with Corbett.

 

Sharkey did it in under 9rds, Jeffries went into the 23rd .

Brady saved Jeff's title by throwing Ryan out of the corner between the 20th and 21st rds and telling Jeff to go in and mix it or lose his crown.

What was the 30lbs heavier 9 years younger Jeffries thinking of, staying off trying to out box the,cleverer, smaller, older man?

 

Good question.

Jeffries seems to have had pretensions of being a clever boxer, even early in his career. He was very proud of having out boxed the older Peter Jackson for example. It is possible that his ego just got the better of him.

Alternatively, perhaps Ryan was the problem, and persisted with his strategy when it was going a over t.

 

There is lots of talk about Jeffries trying to box Corbett and blaming the early round performance on Ryan or Jeffries change in style. But isnt it more likely that the person who should be blamed is Corbett?

It seems to me that Corbett was so elusive that Jeffries for a long time couldnt catch him, and couldnt slow him down or hurt him. And Corbett seemed to have no trouble landing from a distance, with blows that probably hurt more than they looked to the observer. Common sense suggests that jeffries would try to Box a bit so as not to get hit. It also seems from the round by round that he worked the body hard, which is a sound tactic when you are unable to hit someone who is so quick and elusive. It was only when Corbett tired that the change in tactics was able to come about.

At least that is how it plays out in my imagination.


By the way, how good would Corbett's record have been if all fights were limited to 12 rounds like today.

 

Right, and if you add in a knockdown 10-8 round, Jeffries was in front prior to the KO.