Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Well I have to say BatTheMan put on a clinic in this thread, using facts to destroy Loudon and co.
Bat took them into deep ESB debating waters and then drowned them without a seconds mercy.
Pure clinic :deal

I just cant see how anyone can argue with Bat about Jones SMW resume??
Jones fought weight weakend Toney and that was it, and Toney has a terrible SMW resume

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vAmKdgrLf8[/ame]

 

Not many. But Thornton and Brannon were ranked 1 and 2 by the IBF at the time. They wanted Roy to fight them. Also I flicked through a May 95 copy of The Ring mag earlier, and Byrd was rated very high in the rankings for all three organisations.

But again, you're missing the point. I agree with you that after Toney, his opposition was weak. I also agree that they were other fighters who were more deserving of a shot.

The two points that I'm arguing against are:


You implying that Roy didn't want to fight any other fighter on that list, which isn't true.

You were happy to post the list of 13 fighters, and claim that they were all deserving of a fight, which also wasn't true.



Two of the fighters from the list didn't even fight at 168.

Four of the other fighters only had one fight, and some of those were losses.

So the fighters who Roy did fight, were more deserving of a fight than them. The remaining fighters on that list never fought Roy for various reasons, that I've explained in detail, with links etc.

You haven't allowed for circumstances, and have layed all the blame at Roy's door.

Have you now changed your opinion of the list of 13, now I've proven that 6 of those fighters weren't deserving?

Also, are you now going to cut Roy a little slack, now you know that Eubank wasn't interested and Roy and Levin didn't want to be tied to King?

 

Nobody is arguing with Bat regarding Roy's resume. I agree with him.

The argument is, not all of the 13 fighters from his list, were more deserving of a fight.

 

Ah the old "Toney was weight drained" excuse.

One of the great crutches for illogical haters of Roy to lean on.

Was Toney coming down in weight? NO

In fact he had been champ at 160 only 2 years previously.

The fact that he went on to be a fat slob and balloon up in weight later in his career does not mean he was "weight drained" against Jones.

I love the way people talok about opinion as facts!

How about the fact that he came into the ring around 10lbs heavier than Jones? I dont suppose that wouldn't have given him any advantage would it??

Its not like fighters CONSTANTLY cut weight so that they can come into the ring bigger than their opponents, now is it? oh wait!

I think its because a prime James Toney is individually a better win for Jones than ANYTHING Calzaghe ever did at 168,that maybe upsets some people on here. Im only guessing.

Toney was in his prime,a 2 weight world champion with names like Nunn,McCallum(x2),Reggie Johnson, along with good contenders like Tim Littles, Iran Barkley, already on his resume,and had a record of 44-0-2

And Jones beat him when he was 25.

What was Calzaghe doing when he was 25? or in his 27th fight?

In Joes 27th fight he was beating Rick Friggin Thornberry

When he was 25 he was still fighting the likes of Luciano Torres

 

Agreed, Toney was always struggling with weight and so on, it's excuses excuses.

Toney loses to Tiberi, and his team come out with excuses about being weight weakened.

Toney loses to Jones, and his team come out with excuses about weight.

Toney loses to Thadzi and his team come out with excuses about weight.

The truth is, Toney lost these fights because he was second best to the guys he fought, that says more about how vulnerable Toney was, he could look good against certain fighters and got found out by others. This shouldn't detract from Jones or other fighters who beat a prime Toney - it's a great win for those guys

True, Jones was a phenom, at age 25 he had the boxing mind and IQ of an experienced veteran. Just a special talent.

Though you have to agree that Calzaghe had great longevity, beat Eubank at age 25 and Hopkins at age 36, two top champions in fights over 11 years apart.

 

Show me the list

 

Id hate for it to come across like I dislike Calzaghe. He was a very good fighter,and deserves the accolades he got. He spent a lot of his career cocooned away in Britain fighting very average fighters, but he has good wins too and went his whole career undefeated.

Its the blind illogical hate some on this site have for Jones,who anyone who has boxed will tell you in one of the greats.

Just listen to Nigel Benn talking about him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgcl9qLqX5I

 

Post number 242, that includes the stats.

 

Yeah I've seen that interview before, if you listen to Eubank, Calzaghe or Benn talk about Jones they're always full of respect, he was a great fighter. Most top fighters get illogical hate on this site, just click on any thread about Mayweather, Pacquiao or the Klitschkos - I remember dinovelvet making a thread about how Wladimir Klitschko would get KO'd in one round by Mike Tyson :rofl

 

Love the Toney part. You almost downgrade him to a bum but then you remember that he is Jones best win so you go damage control

 

It would be hard to downgrade a guy who beat McCallum twice and Nunn among others to being a bum

 

Has anyone got the video where Collins is in the ring with Jones trying to get Jones to face him and Jones acts like Collins isnt there