Do Older Boxers get more respect than they truly deserve in all time rankings?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by walk with me, Dec 23, 2007.


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  1. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I feel that when I look at all time lists usually there are way more older boxers towards the top then boxers of this generation, and to me that doesnt make sense. I mean their records definitely say a lot but its only natural that the boxers of today are better because of advancements in styles and training regiments and changes in technique. The only advantage I can give to the older boxers is toughness and this goes in all sports. The amounts of money that can be made in todays sport in general is so high that participants are scared to put their reputation on the line. If its possible to compare boxing to basketball which is the sport im the most knowledgeable about, if you put 80% Of the players from todays game in the earlier generations it would be unfair... and im talking about players who are not even superstars, i feel like if you tossed baron davis into the 40's he would be known as the greatest player ever. But you get the point...

    does anyone else feel this way?

    or am i wrong for thinking this?
     
    walk with me, Dec 23, 2007
    walk with me, Dec 23, 2007
    #1
  2. TFFP

    TFFP Guest

    Aye

    There is too much nostalgia floating around, especially for American heavyweights

    I mean for ****s sake, Wlad and Lewis against cruiserweights. That is essentially what we are talking about. As a lightweight I am 10x more skilled than the big MW's in my gym, doesn't mean I can actually beat them

    In all-time great lists, you have to factor in p4p skill (Ali would excel here) how the old guys would improve with training advancements and also head to head matchups. Lewis and Wlad are underappreciated

    This goes for most divisions, but especially heavyweights because the size difference is so huge
     
    TFFP, Dec 23, 2007
    TFFP, Dec 23, 2007
    #2
  3. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    see i dont think its fair to factor in such things as training advancements because theres no telling if the fighter was mentally skilled enough to pick up on these advancements .... thats like saying if bob cousy knew and 1 moves he would be better as far as rank goes all time.... you can only count for whats documented in my opinion... i dunno tho
     
    walk with me, Dec 23, 2007
    walk with me, Dec 23, 2007
    #3
  4. Symphenyceo

    Symphenyceo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    some of them...and alot of old fighters their is hardly any footage of them so its hard to rank them
     
    Symphenyceo, Dec 23, 2007
    Symphenyceo, Dec 23, 2007
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  5. TFFP

    TFFP Guest

    I don't know if it would make a huge difference anyway to be honest. It was just a bit of a token gesture on my part, to appease these old nuthuggers

    The modern day greats, would waste the older guys in most cases. End of story

    In the heavyweight division, the gulf would be even more noticable
     
    TFFP, Dec 23, 2007
    TFFP, Dec 23, 2007
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  6. Orishaman

    Orishaman I tell it like it is.... Full Member

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    No they don't, you compare the boxers on how they fair against their contenporaires, some of the ATG transcend the times, and they would have been tough to beat by any top boxers in their weight classes....

    Boxing, like baseball, represent the history of this country and tell the tales of the development of America thru baseball and boxing....the inmigrants became either baseball players or boxers, and their heritage dictated how they would fight- Italians, Irish, Jewish....and then the next migration of Mexican and Puerto Ricans etc...the past in boxing is as important as the future of the sport...and if we need to respect the past to have hope for the future of the sport....

    Who ever sees it different, is not holding the grat history tradition of the sport high on their priority list....


    The Lineal of great boxers is as important as the boxers of today....

    Johnson to Louis to SRR to Ali to PBF...is all part of the history of the game
     
    Orishaman, Dec 23, 2007
    Orishaman, Dec 23, 2007
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  7. H .

    H . Boxing Junkie banned

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    I believe it's more about achievements during an era than "who can beat who".
     
    H ., Dec 23, 2007
    H ., Dec 23, 2007
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  8. Orishaman

    Orishaman I tell it like it is.... Full Member

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    Yet million of fans watched them fight and the legend started by word of mouth....that doesn;t make it any lesser than boxers from 1950 in....
     
    Orishaman, Dec 23, 2007
    Orishaman, Dec 23, 2007
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  9. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    right ive always felt like this but in all weight classes...

    case and point... espn just made a top 10 heavyweight list

    10. larry holmes
    9. joe frazier
    8. goerge forman
    7. ezzard charles
    6. rocky marciano
    5. gene tunney
    4. jack johnson
    3. jack dempsey
    2. muhammed ali
    1. joe louis

    i find it hard to believe that a guy like lennox lewis wouldnt dispose of a guy like rocky marciano... or even mike tyson etc etc

    i just wanna know if im wrong for thinking like this and if not do people agree...

    i think the problem with boxing as compared to other sports is when ranking these guys people arent impartial because they cant put there feelings aside because people are literally getting beat up and for as long as you watch a boxer you develope such a liking for this person that it literally hurts you to put someone else above them... unless its that clear..... i think these feelings change boxing rankings

    right now i cant find the rest of the list but all the guys highlights was in black and white.
     
    walk with me, Dec 23, 2007
    walk with me, Dec 23, 2007
    #9
  10. H .

    H . Boxing Junkie banned

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    As I said, it's not about who can beat who.
     
    H ., Dec 23, 2007
    H ., Dec 23, 2007
    #10
  11. TFFP

    TFFP Guest

    The problem with the legends that are passed down, is that you don't get a subjective view of how good they are actually are. People are too nostaligic, and prefer to talk of how great things were back in the day. That's the same in anything, not just boxing

    The views of greats are distorted
     
    TFFP, Dec 23, 2007
    TFFP, Dec 23, 2007
    #11
  12. Orishaman

    Orishaman I tell it like it is.... Full Member

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    you can always claim ..well Rhaman KO Lewis, Rocky would also...who knows..we will never know...all we can do is respect the records and their accomplishments during their times
     
    Orishaman, Dec 23, 2007
    Orishaman, Dec 23, 2007
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  13. nervousxtian

    nervousxtian Trolljegeren Full Member

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    Wlad and Lewis would probably beat everyone on that top 10 list. Though I see Wlad losing to Foreman, Fraizer, and Ali.

    I see Lewis losing to Ali.
     
    nervousxtian, Dec 23, 2007
    nervousxtian, Dec 23, 2007
    #13
  14. Orishaman

    Orishaman I tell it like it is.... Full Member

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    \
    So you think that Dempsey was lesser of a fighter than Tyson was in the late 80's...I don't think so...his accomplishments during his era, are as impressive as any HW in any era...
     
    Orishaman, Dec 23, 2007
    Orishaman, Dec 23, 2007
    #14
  15. TFFP

    TFFP Guest

    It is one of the factors I'm afraid

    If you have 2 guys, that have both achieved in their respective eras, how can you seperate them other than head to head?

    You can't simply say that so and so is better, simply because he fought in 1960
     
    TFFP, Dec 23, 2007
    TFFP, Dec 23, 2007
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