Do people here honestly think that defense wins you points in boxing?

I agree with this partially....there needs to be a balance if you are utilizing defensive skills. Footwork is a defensive and offensive skill but so are angles, lateral movement and head movement. Using these skills is something that a true defensive pugilists will implement strategically.....some boxers use mobility as defense which is in excess. That in itself is a clear indication they don't have diversity or skills defensively that allows them to operate at a level of guys like James Toney or a Pernelle Whitaker.

Being able to stay in the pocket is something a truly skilled defensive fighter can do which increases their chances at landing their own offense because they are always within range. Back peddling and retreating as a boxers main form of defense either means they have stamina/conditioning issues or they just don't have a broad or robust defensive skill set to fall back on

 

In-fighting and having the ability to fight at close range is indicative of ring intelligence. That kind of IQ isn't something that's prevalent in the sweet science. It's a rarity but it doesn't contribute to dumbing down the sport, it actually uplifts the sport when fighters have that level of defensive skills to compliment their offense

 

I want to thank you for posting this video of Round 9. He's certainly "dropping truth bombs" on his channel with videos like this.

Here's a round that pretty much everybody assumed was a G round, but the way he went through it really has me convinced that Canelo won this round. The difficult part of it is some of those G pressure punches kind of appear to have landed, but it's hard to tell. On some of them, Canelo is turning his head right as the punch appears to land, so I could see how someone rooting for G would think those punches were landing and that they were enough to give G the round.

However, when you really look at clean impactful punches, clearly Canelo landed more of those. Look for example at 4:48 in that video (1:37 left in the round), that right hand by Canelo was by far better than anything G landed. That's a textbook "clean effective punch", impactful, enough to move G back from the sheer force of the punch. G didn't have any punches like that.

I mean, there’s no doubt G landed several more jabs in this round than Canelo did. But the jabs were not impactful, most of them were not “clean” or “effective”, they were partly blocked, partly slipped, or they were so light to where Canelo didn’t feel the need to even avoid it.

I don’t know how these punches can actually win somebody a round. It’s not like G was landing hard head snapping jabs or anything. I like how the truth bomb dropper was saying that many of G’s punches this round were the “epitome of ineffective punches”.

I would say G landed “a few” effective jabs in this round, like the one with 1:16 left in the round. That was a good punch by G, but most of what G landed were ineffective, as Canelo is so skilled at slipping punches or taking the sting off a lot of these punches.

Both men land jabs at 1:12 left in the round, though Canelo’s landed better and more to the head, G’s was to the shoulder. G lands a jab with 1:10 left, but like truth bomb dropper says, Canelo took much of the sting off it by moving away. That punch really just grazed Canelo’s beard, but I can totally see how judges or fans score those as hits and give G the round when watching it in real-time. Like he said “it landed, but it wasn’t that effective”. That’s what happened with a lot of G’s punches.

G shakes his head with 1:05 left in the round after a partly blocked one two from Canelo. 1:03 left Canelo gets in a sneaky left hook that hits G’s head around the guard, not that hard, but certainly more effective than most of those jabs that G touched Canelo with. Look at the jab Canelo lands with 0:49 left in the round, spitting G’s guard, landing hard. G counters with a right hand with 0:48 left that rolls off the back of Canelo’s head as he’s turning his head. (that wasn’t as effective as the jab that Canelo landed a second before) I mean you can see a clear difference between the punches that Canelo is throwing that are hitting G flush vs the punches that G is throwing ghat Canelo is rolling with and taking the sting off of them. There’s a difference, and it’s the difference between landing a clean effective punch and not landing a clean effective punch.

To be clear, there’s no doubt that G “touched Canelo more with this gloves” than Canelo touched him with his gloves in the 9th round. And surely that’s why the judges gave that round to G. But how effective were the majority of G’s “hits” in this round? Not very. Canelo’s hits in the 9th were much more impactful and more effective.

Interesting exchange with 0:34 seconds left, both men are punches, Canelo counters and gets in a nice right hand to the head. G backs away and starts breathing hard. He felt that one.

G touches him with a jab with 0:31 left, Canelo counters with 2 hard body shots, Canelo follows that up with a looping right hand to G’s shoulder, G retreats and backs up, breathing hard.

These are scoring shots from Canelo, and in my view are better than some of the light shots G touched him with that I didn’t mention in this round.

0:26 seconds G throws a jab, looked to me mostly blocked by Canelo with left glove. (not clean, not an effective punch by G) Canelo touches him with a jab 0:24 left, Canelo makes G miss two jabs with head movement at 0:22 left.

Alvarez finishes the round well with a jab with 0:16 left, partly blocked by G, but hits him on the forehead. Then Canelo follows that up with a 3 punch combo, a right and a left to the body, partly blocked, then a clean effective landed punch by Canelo, a short right hand to the head. G “shakes his head” again lol, that was a good combo by Canelo.

Canelo blocks another G jab with 0:13 left, our view is blocked by the referee of a counter right hand with 0:12 left by Canelo that looks like it may have landed.

Then Canelo makes G miss a jab and a right hand badly. Canelo may have gotten in a jab with 0:06 left, hard to tell.

Now, it’s true that the guy said Canelo landed some uppercuts at the end of the video, which I’m not sure I saw, so maybe he mis spoke there, and he also said that some of G’s punches didn’t land which actually landed, however what he said about how G’s punches not being clean or effective while Canelo’s were was very accurate.

Great video, this is a round that I completely understand why the judges scored it for G. In the 9th, G clearly hit Canelo more than Canelo hit him, however those additional hits by G in the 9th were not clean nor were they effective, nor were they impactful.

When you look at the hardest, clean, effective punches that both guys landed in the round, the fighter who landed more of those was clearly Canelo and enough for Canelo to win the round.

I really challenge G fans to respond to this post and really be honest about it. I fully admitted that G landed more punches in this round, but to all the G fans that read this and have trouble accepting this was a Canelo round, can you admit that Canelo in fact landed the far more “clean effective impactful punches” this round? The ability for G fans to admit this will tell us how biased you are.

It’s really undeniable that Canelo landed more clean effective punches this round just as it’s really undeniable that G landed more overall punches than Canelo more this round.

This reality makes it a hard round to score, especially in real-time. I don’t see why both G fans and Canelo fans can’t agree about this reality being factual, at least in regard to the 9th round.

 

Goddamn, it's been a month almost, I really need to watch this fight.

Also though, people need to be able to have generalized debates without having agendas hung up on individual fights or fighters. Threads like this are both stimulating and sort of exactly the kind of junk this forum needs less of (partisan bickering with two sides who are never going to even attempt to see one another's perspective or show the least objectivity, because they have their battle lines drawn and minds already made up)

 

Why haven't you watched the fight?

You have to watch before you come in here trying to moderate. LOL!

Watch it! If you use amateur criteria to score, you'll score for Golovkin.
Score by professional standards where a lot more weight is given for effective punching, then Canelo wins it clear.

 

That's my point, I've been in here participating in this discussion as though it were actually what its title says - and not an excuse for Canelo fan-boys and GGG fan-boys to pot shot each other and cheer those on their "side" on. Why can't this kind of thread exist separately (and reach 20 pages) without being intertwined with all the agenda BS?

I think a more generalized debate on "how much do people think defense should be emphasized in scoring" is an interesting topic in a vacuum, and deserves better than being just a Trojan horse for people to air their grievances or gloat about the result of a particular match.

 

Stop whining and go watch the fight already.

 

You know as well as I do that more members than not in this forum don't even score fights.
They'll come in here with an opinion on who they thought was the winner, but you know they didn't score it.
When you have that, you cant expect them to know the first thing about weighing defense.

To me, the more a fighter uses their defensive abilities to open up an offensive, that type of defense weighs more than a defense that is employed just to have the round go by without getting hit.