Do people here honestly think that defense wins you points in boxing?

You two are having two different conversations. You're both right.

Haye DID outland Wlad in power punches.

Wlad DID outland Haye overall (and at the higher connect percentage overall), because of his massive edge in jabs landed, and much higher percentage of jabs landed.

The jab won the fight. Story of 90% of Wlad fights.

Wlad outjabbed (volume AND percentage) literally everybody, until Fury. Kind of goes with the territory of being freakishly tall and long compared with virtually everyone in your division. Doesn't hurt that he was also a student of the game, and of the Kronk Jab Guru specifically.

 

Those are two different things.

Ring generalship isn't "coming forward".

It also isn't, on the other end of some imaginary binary, just magically slipping or dodging every oncoming punch.

It's a less directly observable (but still very much real) phenomenon than either effective aggression or effective defense, that just takes a little more patience and more of a trained eye to look out for.

It's not some vague undefined mystical quality.

It's literally just who is controlling the terrain of the match. Who's most where they want to be, in relation to their opponent and the physical boundaries of the ring itself? Who's most comfortable where they are, consistently?

The answer is pretty much always Joe Calzaghe or Floyd Mayweather or Roberto Durán in nearly all of their fights, for starters, just to give you a reference point. (note: three COMPLETELY different styles. They could not be ANY more different. Also three CONSUMMATE ring generals. Maybe the 3-headed GOAT of the modern era. Or at least faces that should be on the Mt. Rushmore. If you don't see what I'm saying, you never will and scoring just isn't for you)

 

That's one effective way to box. That isn't the only way, or the "right" way. There's no law written anywhere that a great boxer has to be in close proximity to his opponents, ever. He can be, that's fine, if his skill allows him to swim without getting wet. But he doesn't have to be.

There should however be a law prohibiting how often certain fans can throw around the word "runner". It gets overused to death. Lots of just flat out boxing gets incorrectly labeled running just because people are butthurt about the fight being less explosive than maybe they anticipated, or maybe the lummox getting outboxed is someone they're a fan of so they lash out at the "runner".

Dirrell flat out RAN from Stevens.

Julio Ler flat out RAN from Arce.

There are maybe a literal handful more examples of televised remotely notable fights of the last 15 years where I can remember someone ACTUALLY running.

Lara isn't a runner, contrary to hater talk

Mayweather wasn't a runner, contrary to hater talk

Calderon wasnt a runner, contrary to hater talk

Rigondeaux isn't a runner,
contrary to hater talk

 

i'd rate Hopkins above Calzaghe for ring generalship every day of the week
you can't seriously put Calzaghe on a level with duran and Mayweather, when his best win against a prime fighter was mikkel Kessler
not meaning to downplay his ability, but you can only rate a fighter based on the fights that he made and when. Floyd, for example, has many Kessler+ opponents on his resume

 

I don't think defence scores points but let's take an extreme situation:

A defensive boxer v a pressure fighter. The pressure fighter is coming forward throwing lots but missing due to the defence of the opponent. Who wins the round?

I think this is where defence should be considered however a lot if people instantly jump on the "aggressor should win" theory

It's subjective and depends on the fight tho.

 

how bout you stop talkin out your ass already and reread my post. nowhere did i say "just" the pro defense side does that. the op made a thread about defense so thats what i made my comment about. why dont you start your own thread about offense so you can do your crying there when i defend it. you want to score for cuteness, have at it, but dont try and equate boxing with some artistic form of expression like some lame boxing hipster, this is the hurt business.

 

In this situation I would go and look at punches landed.

If the pressure fighter lands more, he wins.

If the defensive boxer lands more, he wins.

This is just a theory I have.

 

you will not win points with defense. but the opponent wont win points either because of your good defense. so maybe you could win the round with a couple of stiff jabs?

The industry of course pushes this coming forward as being aggressive ("winning"), They push this because it makes for a exciting fight, they have product to sale after all, and two defenseless punching bags banging each other makes for a great spectacle. however for example rigo beat the hell out of donnair , and donnair came forward all night.

I think top tier fighters can fight effective laterally, back and forward. Hard to be successfully at the p4p level being one dimensional it will catch up with you.

 

Defense is only important if you land more punches than your opponent. If you slip 60% of the attackers shots it doesn't matter, as long as he outlands you, the fight is lost.

 

Then how did Willie Pep win a round without throwing a single punch?

 

that never happened, its just fan hype. remember its a fight you have to land to win.

 

https://www.boxing247.com/williepep.html

 

lol... 1 round in history of boxing won without throwing a punch, how many fights has there been, 1.000.000? probably 10.000.000 rounds of boxing, and 1 of those rounds was won by a fighter who didn't throw a punch, so by your logic the odds of that happening are like winning the lottery so I don't know what you tried to prove here.

 

Don't take this guy at face value and don't believe one article he shows you. If you do some research into this you'll find that it's very debated and no footage of the fight is available to prove it.

 

It's like that one time that a jihadi shot an Abrams in the turret ring from above at an oblique angle with an RPG that "proves" an Abramas is killable with an RPG