Do people really rate Roy Jones win over Bernard Hopkins?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Oct 3, 2012.


Page 3 of 14
  1. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    40,374
    3,468
    Dec 11, 2009
    75% of my threads are not about them, even if there has been several about them.
    Shows how thorough I am
     
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    #31
  2. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    40,374
    3,468
    Dec 11, 2009
    Who are you?
    What are you doing in this thread?
    I dont want the old punch bag hanging around this thread, take a walk Rudyard before it gets too heavy on here for you

    I know.
    I dont blame Jones for that not happening. But that also wasnt the point.
    Jones did offer that fight
     
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    #32
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    52,181
    27,648
    Jan 3, 2007
    It was a very good win no doubt. But no, this was not the Bernard Hopkins nor for that matter the Roy Jones of a few years later. Prime for prime, I'd still favor Roy in a very close and competitive bout. But their first meeting was not significant enough to be considered a legacy match, as it is only in hindsite that these two men went on to doing what they did, when in fact either or both could have just as easily faded into anonymity.
     
    mr. magoo, Oct 3, 2012
    mr. magoo, Oct 3, 2012
    #33
  4. irishny

    irishny Obsessed with Boxing banned

    15,119
    10
    May 8, 2009
    No,its nothing like Clinton Mitchells win over Hopkins.

    Hopkins had won 22 on the bounce since that fight which was 5 years before,and was fighting for the IBF title.

    He had more pro experience and was older than Jones. After that fight he was unbeaten for 12 years. So between 1990 and 2005, Hopkins had ONE loss and that was against RJJ
     
    irishny, Oct 3, 2012
    irishny, Oct 3, 2012
    #34
  5. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    40,374
    3,468
    Dec 11, 2009
    A truly honest and fantastic post.
     
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    #35
  6. Skittlez

    Skittlez Guest

    I'm just going to copy and paste some stuff from my other threads.

    Regarding Hopkins-Jones

    They were not at the 'same stage' of their respective careers. Roy Jones relied on his freakish reflexes, athleticism, and youth. His blinding speed and combinations. That is what made ROY Jones. If you watched that version of young Roy and compare it to Prime Roy, it's mostly the same.

    Bernard Hopkins relied on his variety of tricks, his cunning, and his experience. Along with to a extend his reflexes and power. That being said, much of what Bernard relied on came with age and came with more and more fights.

    People would use the excuse 'OH WELL Bernard was much faster and more explosive than'' .. Lol well that version of Bernard would have gotten destroyed by Prime Bernard.

    In other words, it was a very Green Bernard vs a Roy Jones who just relied on his athleticism and speed anyways. Prime Bernard fought totally different. Young Roy was the same as Prime Roy, Young Bernard was very inferior to Prime Bernard.




    Regarding Roy Jones Jr
    I did some research


    Because there were so many threads on Roy-Ward-Calzaghe lately, it got my little curiosity engine burning and I decided to do a little researching.


    1992- Roy Jones Jr became a legit MW top 3 fighter.

    At that time these were the top middleweights.
    Julian Jackson
    James Toney (Toney at this stage of his career had NO issues making weight)
    Reggie Johnson
    Roy Jones Jr.
    Mike McCallum
    Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn were hovering between 160-168

    Roy in 1992 fought Jorge Vaca, Art Serwano,Glenn Thomas, Percy Harris, and Glenn Wolfe.



    1993
    Roy has now become the #1 MW in the world.
    These were his peers
    Roy Jones Jr.
    Gerald McClellan
    John David Jackson
    Reggie Johnson
    Julian Jackson
    Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn were hovering between 160-168

    Roy avoided the murderous punchers and fought a relatively unknown Bernard Hopkins. Who became an ATG, but at that point in time, Bernard was not seen as a threat what so ever. After Hopkins Roy went on to fight the
    much feared 'Fermin Chirino"


    1994-1995
    Roy Jones Jr is now considered the best 168 fighter in the world.

    Right behind him were
    Nigel Benn
    Chris Eubank
    Frankie Liles
    Tim Littles
    Michael Nunn


    JAMES TONEY WAS RANKED AS A LIGHT HEAVY WEIGHT by the end of that year.


    Roy Jones Jr decided to fight a clearly weight issued Toney and
    good ole DANNY GARCIA.

    James Toney was probably Roy's best win







    Roy moves up to LHW, avoided the clear #2 Dariusz Michalczewski and fought everyone else.

    Now this is very interesting, because Roy actually became less of a duck at LHW as compare to his MW-SMW Days.

    I will like a expert on this subjec to explain why Roy Jones avoided most of the top MW-SMWs, but did LESS avoiding as a LHW?





    Roy did finally managed to stop avoiding Mike McCallum and decided to fight him many years later when he became a LHW.
    Mike's LHW record is 4-3. Mike's best days were clearly in the early-mid 90's when he and Roy both fought at 160-168ish weights. Offers were never accepted by Roy's camp.
     
    Skittlez, Oct 3, 2012
    Skittlez, Oct 3, 2012
    #36
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    52,181
    27,648
    Jan 3, 2007
    Thank you.
     
    mr. magoo, Oct 3, 2012
    mr. magoo, Oct 3, 2012
    #37
  8. DanishFightfan

    DanishFightfan Boxing Junkie banned

    7,546
    4
    Mar 7, 2011
    Every resume can be picked apart..
     
    DanishFightfan, Oct 3, 2012
    DanishFightfan, Oct 3, 2012
    #38
  9. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    40,374
    3,468
    Dec 11, 2009
    I didnt say it was like Clinton Mitchells win over Hopkins. I said Its like saying C Mitchells win over Hopkins was a good win.

    Yes Hopkins had moved on. But lets not forget the point you miss where Hopkins looked fortunate to some when he tried stepping up again after losing to Jones and looked close to being stopped and only got a draw. As I said earlier, if it had of been Jones beating Hopkins 10/15 fights later, it would have looked as the great win the names make it out to be.
    Its as I pointed out, people would note Tarvers win over G Johnson in their rematch, but nobody would look at O Sheikas win over Johnson years previously and call it a good win for Omar
     
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    #39
  10. Rudyard

    Rudyard **** How You Feel!! HOE! banned

    27,672
    1
    Jan 30, 2009
    This content is protected
     
    Rudyard, Oct 3, 2012
    Rudyard, Oct 3, 2012
    #40
  11. irishny

    irishny Obsessed with Boxing banned

    15,119
    10
    May 8, 2009
    You metion Nigel Benn, yet dont mention RJJs destruction of Malinga who had a victory over Benn,and a controversial split decision loss to Eubank

    The likes of Lucas Thornton and Tate were all highly ranked fighters at the 160-168 division.

    You also missed Castro in 1992 who was 70-3-2

    There was very little "ducking"
     
    irishny, Oct 3, 2012
    irishny, Oct 3, 2012
    #41
  12. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    40,374
    3,468
    Dec 11, 2009
    :yikes:yikes:yikes
    What a post. I mean really what a post.
    Never have I done this on one of my own threads or on anyone elses for that fact, but
    /thread

    Truly a sensational post :happy

    I would just like to add further to what you note about Jones fighting McCallum after he had lost to Tiozzo who Jones didnt go near
     
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    #42
  13. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

    42,760
    3,974
    May 4, 2012
    So because Roy didn't clean out every division he fought in, he was "ducking" everyone? C;mon Felix, we know you dislike Roy, but not many fighters in history ever did that.

    Johnson was dealt with as he was a top 3 or 4 Light heavyweight coming off a huge KO win and got shut out.

    Don King wanted options on Roy at 168 but Roy only wanted to do a fight by fight...and King wouldn't budge. Not Jones' fault.
     
    turbotime, Oct 3, 2012
    turbotime, Oct 3, 2012
    #43
  14. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    40,374
    3,468
    Dec 11, 2009
    Of course it can and this thread is not about picking people apart
    So because Pascal beat Dawson and Dawson beat Hopkins....
    Dont be silly.
    He doesnt mention also how Benn had beaten Malinga previously either and dont try and big it up because one was clearer than the other, because you could then point to Ward beating Kessler, then went the distance against A Green who Kessler blasted out in 4
     
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    #44
  15. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    40,374
    3,468
    Dec 11, 2009
    The point he made is valid

    Was Roy Jones a paper champion in the divisions he won world title fights in, between winning the MW title up to his fight at HW with Ruiz?
    Read on....

    At MW Jones won a vacant title against a then unknown unaccomplished fighter in Hopkins. Should Jones have been declared as the MW champ for this win or should that honour have gone to J Jackson who although also won a vacant title fought at a higher level and won his vacant title against a then higher rated more accomplished fighter in H Graham.
    Should Jones have been declared as the man at MW?

    At SMW Jones beat Toney who wasnt a great SMW and didnt have a very good SMW resume. N Benn and C Eubank were more accomplished champions who were fighting at a higher level.
    Should Jones have been declared as the man at SMW?

    At LHW it is without a doubt that Michalczewski was the man at LHW.
    The Ring LHW title disappeared in the 80s and reappeared in the 90s where it just handed its belt to R Jones, but if the line of you have to beat the man to be the man had been followed, the belt should have been handed to Michalczewski for his victory over V Hill. Dariusz was the WBO LHW champ but he also won and vacated the IBF & WBA belts before Jones won them. Also Michalczewski beat Rocchigiani who was wrongly stripped of his WBC belt.
    So Michalczewski had claim to every one of Jones belts and should have been Ring champ.
    Michalczewski was the MAN at LHW.
    Should Jones have been declared as the man at LHW?

    At HW Jones beat Ruiz but I doubt anyone felt Jones was the man at HW with L Lewis as champ. Still same question to the fans. I remember a comment that Ruiz beat Holyfield who drew with Lewis.
    Should Jones have been declared as the man at HW?


    It does appear that Jones fought some good fighters but never against the top man of any division up to his fight with Ruiz and was only ever a paper champion in these divisions. Also Jones was fighting alot of gimmes and beaten fighters.
     
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    bailey, Oct 3, 2012
    #45
Page 3 of 14