Do You agree that James Toney is possibly one of the most overrated american fighters

Toney is a **** talking thug and Americans love that. Americans worship idiots, so toney who was a very good fighter is considered amazing by them just because he talked **** all the time.

 

It's an entertainment sport at the end of the day... so if Toney was giving an interview (with subtitles) on one side and Calzaghe on the other, I know who's interview would be more funny.

However, if I had to meet either of them and enjoy a drink together, it certainly wouldn't be Toney - because he is a Dick.

 

Toney isn't overrated at all.

if anything he's underrated because he's black.

he epitomized slickness in his prime and people don't like seeing successful slick black fighters

much better in his prime for instance than that slap-happy bum from Wales.

 

is this a joke? Monzon would outbox most MW ATG's, let alone Toney.

Duran didn't have a great jab either. he must have sucked ass

 

If you look at who he fought it's shockingly good: Jones Jr, McCallum x3, Reggie Johnson, Nunn, Holyfield, Peterx2, Ruiz, Griffinx2, Rahmanx2, Jirov, Prince Charles Williams, Barkley and a few other contenders I've probably forgot

Both Toney and Duran had excellent jabs, short arms though. Monzon hasn't fought a MW nearly as good as Toney, Toney may actually pull that off although I wouldn't put money on it

 

Yeah, black fighters get so little credit in this sport. Floyd Mayweather never gets love for his skills - the P4P ranking and huge paydays are just a cover-up for how **** everyone thinks he is.

Just to be clear: this is sarcasm.

 

ok Toney is a wanker,

but as a boxer he is an ATG, 80 odd fights, excellent chin, defensive master, gone from middle to heavy. would not call that a resumé of someone overated

 

He really isn't!

 

Grossly overrated, overachieving steroid cheat, and a ignorant moron to boot. I can't wait to see him finally KTFO.

Rawling & Mckenzie's commentary on his last fight was pathetic.

 

This is the kind of **** I was talking about. The general forum is full of crap like this. People are biased towards people of their own race.

Let's be clear, I have no problem with white guys supporting white, or black supporting black, or stanis supporting khan, or other nations supporting people from their nations (nationalism).... The problem I have is the biased partisans who become blinded by this. So because so and so is "slick and black" therefore he is an ATG. That's ****ed up.

Also, to clarify, IMO, Toney is an ATG, just not top 20. Also I rate Hopkins and RJJ higher than him from his contemporaries. Calzaghe lower.

 

If James Toney is not a all-time great, Bernard Hopkins is nowhere near a all-time great.

James Toney beat better fighters than Bernard Hopkins, and as a middleweight has accomplished more at higher weights. James Toney's resume over his middle-weight career, is better than Bernard Hopkins.

People need to understand, the days of when smaller fighters moving through the weight classes are over. No fighter around today has the ability or skill, to move through the higher weight classes.

Could Carl Froch go to Cruiser-weight..? Or Andre Ward..?

I doubt it.

And lets not even talk about Heavyweight!

 

Redondo, how is Toney an ATG? His appalling run at LHW would disqualify him from that surely.

 

That opinion is fine, as long as you don't count Calzaghe as an ATG as well. And by ATG lets define it as best 100 ever.

TO count him as an ATG, you can just look at his resume. Forget his stint at LHW and overlook his "cheating" steroid abuse (good, video from Griff on this see "you gotta love Toney"). Just his MW stint and also his ability to perform at higher weight classes despite not being in shape, show the mans skills and chin were there.

Other ATG like Hagler or monzon, don't really have a record of moving through the weight classes like that, yet it doesn't count against them. The main argument against Toney being an ATG, is his lack of discipline and dedication, and those relatively poor or close losses on his record (maybe also being caught as a steroid cheat). But let's remember other fighters who were considered ATGs had poor performances as well. It's Toneys losses against the lesser guys that hurt him. But like someone else mentioned, he usually performed at the level of his opponent and would train as such and he was considered lazy - both in the ring and out... and that's why it was his dedication and discipline that let him down.

 

I definitely don't count Calzaghe as an ATG. His late-career flush doesn't hide a very uninspiring SMW reign.

I think ignoring his LHW troubles would give an unfair picture of his career. He did look **** and really, other than battering Jirov and Holyfield, he hasn’t achieved very much above 168. So, you’ve got a whole bundle of good fights until then, but very few incredible fights.

He DID look bad at 175, he did put together a list of uninspiring cruiser wins (in an admittedly uninspiring division) and, in one of his two best wins at HW, he was caught cheating. Even the Holyfield fight isn’t that impressive considering how decrepit Holyfield was. These are all major parts of Toney’s legacy. You need to account for all of them, IMO.

I do think he was an exceptional fighter at 160 and 168 though. I can see an argument for him as a great if looking at those alone, but in historical terms? He’s nothing special.