Do you agree with Mike Casey that Tyson's stoppage of a past it Larry Holmes was not an aberration

I disagree. Mike does have game-changing power, but how many opponents did he stop after the 6th round? Only 3 out of 44 wins. And two of those were questionable stoppages over Ribalta and Ruddock. Also, if you rewatch their fight, all of Tyson's notable shots on Larry were when he had his back to the ropes or stopped moving. Tyson would have to knock him out early, because once Larry finds his rhythm, Mike loses.

 

Larry Holmes, master of the left jab and two footed jump kick off the hood of a car.

 

That doesn't mean Mike couldn't do it. You just stated Tyson has 3 stoppage wins after the 6th round. And Tyson almost became the poster boy for come from behind KO's against Douglas in the 8th, meaning he CAN do it.

Tyson went into the 6th round a total of 15 times in his career with 11 victories and 4 defeats. Out of the 11 victories Tyson produced 6 stoppages (KO6 Ferguson, UD10 Tillis, UD10 Green, KO10 Ribalta, UD12 Bonecrusher, KO6 Thomas, KO7 Biggs, KO7 Ruddock, UD12 Ruddock and KO7 Nielsen).

It's not a forgone conclusion to say Tyson couldn't KO an opponent past the 6th. If Holmes beats Tyson he needs to get to Tyson early and control the fight from the outset. Surviving into the 6th against Tyson doesn't automatically bring you a victory. It's preposterous to say so and unless you're reading from the Teddy Atlas book on Mike Tyson hate then there's no foundation to that claim.

If you rewatch their fight Larry wasn't doing anything to win rounds either. So Larry will be flying around the ring the entire fight without Tyson landing? Nobody in the history of boxing can do that, let alone Larry Holmes. He'll have to stop and settle down eventually if he wants to win.

Nobody wants to see Holmes cut a rug up unless he incorporates dancing into his singing career!

 

Holmes took that bump from the hood of a car on his back at 40 years old. For me that was the moment when Larry Living Legend was born!!

 

If Buster Douglas could drag Tyson into deep water and drown him, so could a prime Easton assassin .

 

Exactly, that's what both Douglas and Holy did if I remember correctly.

 

Look, like him or not, the prime Tyson, 86 - 88 had a real shot against anyone .. he was a super talented, furious beast with exceptional strength, speed and two handed power .. could he have a very real shot at beating a prime Larry ? Of course... would have won ? No clue.

 

I don't think Mike Tyson would train for a PRIME Larry Holmes the same way a bored Tyson trained to make an optional title defense against 40-1 underdog Douglas.

Mike Tyson didn't train for an OLD Holmes the same way a bored Tyson trained to make an optional defense against 40-1 underdog Douglas.

Tyson was "a little" sharper against Larry.

 

Last I knew he checked into rehab for a drinking problem but that was a long time ago. I don't know anyone who has spoken to him any more recent than 2017. Damn good writer, though.

 

It seems some people forget that Larry came to the title relatively late - age 28 yo.

They also seem to forget that Larry boxed Shavers ears off the first time around and greatly dominated the second time around save for the 7th round KD.

During his reign we saw Larry notably decline - but 99% of the time he still came through - so we were more acutely availed of very important information - Larry’s chin, guts, will and determination. All the boxes ticked.

Comparing results against Williams and Spinks to the results of the much younger Tyson ignores that Holmes was 35 and 36 yo respectively for those fights.

It also ignores the style factor - compared to boxers, punchers victories are generally more dramatic and by way of the shorter route - often giving an exaggerated but still, obviously limited reads on them.

I don’t fall into the trap of Mike’s “deemed” and impossibly abbreviated prime. Suffice to say, 10-1 underdog, on a streak of losses, Tillis did give Mike “fits”.

42-1 underdog Douglas, a boxer with a great jan, dimensionally similar to Holmes, dismantled Mike and knocked him out.

It’s notable in some peoples eyes that these performances more or less book end Mike’s prime and are energetically precluded - while happily calling in the performances of an aged Holmes at the same time.

Berbick surprised mainly by lasting the distance - which doesn’t necessarily default into him having given Holmes fits.

I see letters to the editor were provided to uphold “perceptions” of the fight - all from Canadians, and no disrespect to our friends form there - but right there, you have conflicts of interest - one letter even berated the mag’s ratings and “bias” toward American fighters.

I like both fighter also - if logic dictated that Tyson would likely prevail, so be it, no dramas.

However, I see the absolute prime, fully conditioned and tuned Holmes to have more chance of winning - and Larry would be suitably wary and self protected in the crucial early rounds.

And while we might over accent on Mike “looking” to land his right - Larry will be meting out his own punishment in the meantime - behind a 24 carat jab.

 

I understand .. I gave my response.

 

Lame reply.

If Mike Weaver, Ken Norton, Tim Witherspoon etc. can give Holmes all he could handle for 10 plus rounds I'm sure Mike Tyson can finish the job.

 

Holmes' game plan was to hold on and wait until the 6th round to open up on a "tired" Tyson. Terrible game plan. Bonecrusher tried it but found out how difficult the task was and fought the remainder of the bout in a shell.

"If you make it until the 6th round Mike Tyson is cannon fodder" is the biggest misconception I've seen regarding Mike Tyson's flaws. It's complete BS and has never happened in the history of our lifetime.

For boxing fans to hang their hat on that misconception is really tiresome and should be showcased for how uninformed, or misinformed, people here really are.

 

Absolutely DP. He was sorta like Ken norton in that he took a punch brilliantly up to a point (of power) then fell away quite steeply. He landed quite a few flush punches on Holmes and if Berbick had genuine power it would have been a barn burner.

I lean toward Tyson. It would be tougher and might last longer but i see a similar ending. At any stage of his career Holmes was extremely difficult to get out of there and even separating him from his senses past prime gives pause because it's a significant achievement. It's a big career with only one stoppage loss and it goes way into old age too.

But as others have noted Tyson was moulded just for this sort of matchup. At his very sharpest, as he was when he fought Holmes, he had a lot going for him. Tyson was a bit of a mental midget really and having that stable calm corner with Rooney, who not only knew how to strategize his charge but also how to handle him mentally was rather important. I thought Rooney was extremely good in the Holmes and Thomas bouts, particularly Thomas as he had a few moments and it looked for a bit like Tyson might be getting frustrated a little. Holmes tactics are obvious - survive those first handful of rounds with plenty of movement, clinching and caution and try to get the juab established. Tyson's going to bore in exactly as he did in their actual fight, surprising with his own jab, working the body a bit on the ropes and trying to find a home for the right hand. I think he'll get there eventually and finish it. Once he has you hurt with time left on the clock he's hell on wheels. What often gets overlooked as well is yeah Tucker and bonecrusher went the full circuit against peak Tyson but they might not have won 4 rounds between them. Tyson just kept piling on the points.