Do you agree with these Tiers of Greatness for 90s-00s fighters?

did you see hopkins vs mercado 1? if so do you really believe he was not good enough to win that fight? did you believe he was not good enough to win pascal in their first fight? did you believe he lost both fights to taylor?

 

not seen the mercardo fights in full.

i thought hopkins lost close decisions in both taylor fights and i can see why he only got a draw with pascal because of the knockdowns.

do you think the judges had it in for poor old bernard and he was robbed in these fights?

what do you think are hopkins biggest wins?

do you think that hopkins belongs on the same tier as pacquiao?

 

well he won them both quite clearly.

if you score pascal 1 a draw then i'd ask under what criteria, did you think pascal won a single round from 4 onwards?

i don't think anyone had it in for anyone because that suggests cheating and i don't like to subscribe to the idea of evil being at the root of this sport. as for robbery, taylor and joe fights are close i suppose, but mercad and pascal fights were not.

you probably know hopkins resume better than me so i'd like to see what you class as his best wins once you see my list.

tito
pascal
pavlik
tarver
holmes
joppy
wright
eastman
hoya

same league as pacman, mos def. do you think in 15 years time pacman will be still beating the best fighters in the world? because it is at that level of ludicrousity that hopkins is currently operating at.

 

think your a bit blinded by hopkins bias if you think he won the taylor fights clearly. pascal 1, i only watched once so i must have given a round to pascal after the 4th if i scored it a draw. got to give hopkins credit for the pascal fights because of his age but the bottom line to me is that mercado, taylor, and pascal are all b-level at best and in the 5 fights hopkins had with them, he wasn't good enough to make any of them clear victories.


i'd say hopkins best victories are

tarver
pascal
trinidad
johnson
pavlik
holmes



with regards to pacquiao, the only areas you could score for hopkins over him are
- longjevity
- the fact hopkins cleared out a division (a very poor middleweight division)


for pacquiao
- he has kicked the ass of top class fighters over an 8 division weight span which is absoloutely phenominal
- his level of victories are far superior to those of hopkins. morales, barrera, marquez, and cotto victories are all superior to any victory on hopkins resume imo. there is also a case for hatton being there as well considering hatton was the man at 140 and had never lost at the weight before manny moved up and demolished him. there is probably a case for ODLH as well considering the huge weight jump but that's balanced up by the opinion of how shot you consider oscar to be. how far off is pac beating margarito being better than hopkins beating tarver?


you obviously place plenty of emphasis on hopkins longjevity but i don't think thats enough to bridge the huge gulf in class of victory in combination with pacs weight jumping to have them sitting on the same tier.

 

No the mercado fights I think he won.

Being the best middle from 96-05 is a bit special, as is being the best lhw at age 46

 

:good

 

yeah, i re-read and thought you may have ment that.

ruling a division that long is a great achievement no matter how weak it is.

possibly being the best light heavyweight at 46 is outstanding, though that is only because joe calzaghe retired.

hopkins just seems to lack those big wins against elite fighters at a fair weight to make him a complete package.

 

I do like the original list well enough. A couple of names I have yet to see mentioned who would also have Tier 5 arguments are Israel Vazquez and Dariusz Michalczewski.

 

Hmm well if its a tier list measuring greatness, I do like to think that the shape of the names would resemble a pyramid. Not too many names deserve the accolades of being truly "great."

 

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Hopkins lost to C Mitchell, looked terrible when losing to Jones in a tame affair, couldnt beat S Mercado getting put down twice in the process, looked pathetic falling out of the ring and only getting a NC against R Allen, got beat twice by J Taylor, got beat by Calzaghe where Hopkins looked a right tart trying to get time out and couldnt beat Pascal at first time of asking

All that to Popkins makes Hopkins a tier 1 fighter

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Froch beats Pascal when undefeated at first ask, something Hopkins couldnt do, Froch beat J Taylor, something Hopkins couldnt do in 2 attempts. Froch loses a close decision to Kessler away, who is a harder fight than anyone Hopkins has beaten

All of that and Froch wasnt in Popkins top 20 P4P

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atsch Popkins logic explained

 

yeah but you missed out that froch has now beaten phenominal super-middleweight glen johnson, and surely that is enough to put any fighter up a minimum of 15 places on your p4p list :rofl

 

Tier One

Manny Pacquiao, Roy Jones Jr, Lennox Lewis, Floyd Mayweather Jr


Tier Two

Oscar De La Hoya, Bernard Hopkins, Erik Morales, Marco Antonio Barrera


Tier Three

James Toney, Joe Calzaghe, Shane Mosley, Juan Manuel Marquez


Tier Four

Winky Wright, Kostya Tszyu, Tito Trinidad, Naseem Hamed


Tier Five

Terry Norris, Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, Wladimir Klitschko, Israel Vazquez or Mark Johnson

 

Not enough people have included Naseem hamed