Do you believe Otto Wallin was a top 10 heavyweight in the world ?

I suppose it is how you view the question. But it is rare that I see the rule of "who was his best win" used consistently. I am guilty of this as well, btw.

E.g.

Here is Wallin's resume against another guy's who is thought of as top 10. Who am I talking about?

Competitive against Fury vs. Competitive against Wilder
Win over Gassiev vs. Win over Jennings
Win over Breazeale vs. Win over retiring Thompson
Loss to Joshua vs. Ducked Joshua

Many had Ortiz in their top 5 for nearly a decade. He was competitive in losses, but had no notable wins and ducked Joshua for a career high pay day.

 

Ortiz doesn't have an extensive resume but it's considerably deeper than Wallin's.

Wallin:

2023 Gassiev (no HW wins of any note, nothing since CW in 2018, close decision)
Final fight Breazeale
Final fight Granat? (peviously poleaxed in 1 by Dimitrenko)

Ortiz:

Jennings (outboxed and KO'd in 7)
Martin (Ortiz KO'd him at 42+)
Hammer
Final fight Scott (had beaten a younger Thompson)
Final fight Thompson

Thus it's understandable why Ortiz was consistently rated much more highly than Wallin.

Ortiz generally looked a lot better than Wallin and had good power. Lost a close decision to Ruiz when he was 43+ but Wallin lost by a mile to 41 year old Chisora.

The "Joshua duck" narrative is absurd. There was zero motive to duck Joshua and Ortiz fought Wilder a few months later.

 

So... Ortiz didn't beat anyone of note. Which is the point, yes...

Regarding the duck.
Ortiz was offered 7 or 8 million, was it? And still managed to price himself out.

And no one really cares about Wilder, mate. It all fell apart for the American dream when he actually fought legitimate contenders from overseas.

End of the day, Pricing yourself out of a chance at becoming WBA/IBF/WBO champion is a ridiculous duck.

 

In your estimation, Joshua has been ducked by:

Fury
Wilder
Ortiz

Quite a list. Who else? You and your alts are surely the saddest and most dedicated Joshua fanboy.

Imagine thinking a Cuban would duck a career high payday against JOSHUA. No one wanted to face the chinny cash cow.

 

I can't change the past, my friend. A duck is a duck

 

What was your theory? That Ortiz (who had been chasing Joshua years previously, even joining Matchroom to get the fight) was willing to sacrifice a huge payday and more belts due to his sheer terror of Joshua? A terror which didn't befall Eric Molina et al.?

Whyever the fight didn't happen (I think it's obvious that Joshua/Hearn had previously ducked Ortiz but whatever), this explanation defies logic. Had Ortiz not been signed to PBC and got the Wilder fight several months later, why wouldn't he have fought Joshua? (assuming Joshua/Hearn would have fought him)

I have no truck for Wilder but he'll be in the HoF, along with Usyk, Fury and Joshua. He's the most significant American HW since Holyfield. He's not done badly in boxing, barring the brain damage.

There are levels to boxing records. No one is saying that Ortiz has an ATG resume, but there's a lot more there than there is for Wallin.

 

Ortiz's management turned down the fight when it was offered. Which is what counts imo