Do you consider Ali's win over Doug Jones controversial?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MyName, Mar 28, 2012.


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  1. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Heavyweight fights that were,in my opinion,as close as the Clay-Jones one.


    Frazier-Bonavena I
    Foreman-Peralta I
    Bugner-Cooper
    Ali-Shavers
    Holmes-Witherspoon


    All of these bouts were very tight,but the nod went to the right man each time.
     
    Stevie G, Mar 30, 2012
    Stevie G, Mar 30, 2012
    #31
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Although Jones had some success, started well and had the crowd roaring every time he so much as flicked out a half landed jab, I can't see the fight as that controversial. The individual rounds are often quite close and a couple of times I was flat out praying for something clean in the final seconds to seperate them, but Ali is throwing more and landing more. Although some of his shots are glancing blows he is mixing them up with enough solidly landed punches to take stretches. Only that extraordinary rally Jones pulled off in the 8th kept him in the fight for me, as that one was going to Ali too.

    It's entertaining and fun though, despite of all the missing. Ali doesn't manage to find his stride and start landing a percentage of his punches until the very last round, by the end of which Jones is rubbery leggd and sporting a nice shiner.

    Not particularly controversial for me.

    JONES: 1,2,6,8

    ALI: 3,4,5,7,9,10


    6-4 Ali
     
    McGrain, Mar 30, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 30, 2012
    #32
  3. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I think the crowd booed at the decision.
    That counts as controversy, imo.
     
    Legend X, Mar 30, 2012
    Legend X, Mar 30, 2012
    #33
  4. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Round 7

    Doug Jones at 188 lbs. does not throw alot of punches, he is economical in his pucnhes, but the ones he does throw, land.

    Jones is the aggressor, forcing Cassius Clay 202 lbs. to hold on several occasions.

    Cassius Clay fires many punches, and from all angles. He misses the majority of them, as Jones slips the now telegraphed punches.

    Clay does land a few though, but there is no power behind them.

    Chris Schenkel, the televison announcer, tells the viewers that Clay
    is tired and that Jones is here to the stay till the end.

    Both Judges, Frank Forbes and Artie Aidala score the 7th Round for
    Doug Jones.

    The referee, Joe LoScalzo scores it for Cassius Clay.

    Chris Schenkel also scores the round for Doug Jones.
     
    Senor Pepe', Mar 30, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Mar 30, 2012
    #34
  5. MyName

    MyName Simon Adebisi Full Member

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    Well the fight was in Jones's hometwon,offcourse they booed.

    If it wuld have been in Louisville they would have cheered.

    Crown booing is a non factor imo.
     
    MyName, Mar 31, 2012
    MyName, Mar 31, 2012
    #35
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It doesn't really matter if they booed or not IMO, we have the complete fight on film, which most people think shows an Ali win, including me.
     
    McGrain, Mar 31, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 31, 2012
    #36
  7. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I can never see what the big deal is with this fight.

    Yes, Jones won a few rounds but Ali won more, its there for everyone to see so wheres the controversy?
     
    johnmaff36, Mar 31, 2012
    johnmaff36, Mar 31, 2012
    #37
  8. MyName

    MyName Simon Adebisi Full Member

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    I agree with you guys but thereason I asked is becauyse it's always mentioned along with the Ali ''robberies''.

    I don't thnk this comnpares at all with hte Young fight.
     
    MyName, Mar 31, 2012
    MyName, Mar 31, 2012
    #38
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It was one of those things that was mega, mega-fashionable to say BYT (Before You Tube), guys making out they had seen it and it was dodgy. Just some of that residue.

    Also - I think you could put together a card for Jones. Most seem to have two points in it which isn't that much even in a ten rounder.
     
    McGrain, Mar 31, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 31, 2012
    #39
  10. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    A crowd booing a decision IS controversy.
    People can argue that it is only mild controversy but it is controversy.

    People for years claiming they have saw it and claiming it a dodgy decision IS controversy.

    The Associated Press ringside scorecard had Jones winning 5-4-1.
    AP writer Murray Rose wrote that a sample a boxing writers ringside had 7 voting for Clay, 5 for Jones, and 3 for the draw.
    That is controversy.

    The fact that 'almost everyone' (for argument's sake) who views the film now on youtube has it for Clay only adds to the controversy.

    controversy
    con·tro·ver·sy
    n. pl. con·tro·ver·sies 1. A dispute, especially a public one, between sides holding opposing views.

    Controversy : a state of prolonged public dispute or debate, usually concerning a matter of opinion.


    Was the Clay-Jones fight controversial ?
    Yes.
     
    Legend X, Mar 31, 2012
    Legend X, Mar 31, 2012
    #40
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The question is, "Do YOU consider the Ali win over Doug Jones Controversial."

    Dictionary definitions aside :lol: i've interpreted this as an invitation to score the fight and report back. So did most everyone else, and based on his posts since, that's gonna be a bout right. But yeah, he could have been asking if there is any controversy associated with this fight at all...although he obviously already knew there was.
     
    McGrain, Mar 31, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 31, 2012
    #41
  12. frankenfrank

    frankenfrank Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1st rd a 10-8 rd 4 Jones . Only d ropes kept Ali up in it .
     
    frankenfrank, Mar 31, 2012
    frankenfrank, Mar 31, 2012
    #42
  13. MyName

    MyName Simon Adebisi Full Member

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    Meh.

    If the ref didn't call it it as not a KD.

    Besides the differecne in the rund as hardly enough to call it a 10-8.Jones had an excellent 90 seconds but the rest of hte round Ali came back in it.
     
    MyName, Mar 31, 2012
    MyName, Mar 31, 2012
    #43
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It was scored in rounds, not ten points must anyway, so Ali could have been knocked down in every single round he lost without changing the result.
     
    McGrain, Mar 31, 2012
    McGrain, Mar 31, 2012
    #44
  15. Legend X

    Legend X Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I consider it controversial because it was, has been and IS controversial.

    Dictionary definitions can be helpful when people are perhaps using the wrong word. Usually on this board I find myself in trouble for missing the correct meaning of another's statement, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who encounters that.

    My original statement was :
    "I think the crowd booed the decision. That counts as controversy, imo."

    Two posters offered the opinion that the crowd booing is a non-factor or of no importance. So I clarified myself again with a bit more input. Not trying to be a smartass, just defending/explaining my simple statement and view on the matter. My statement and thoughts are obviously too simple for this stage of the thread. I should stick to page 1. :lol:

    Anyway ...

    More interestingly, if the consensus is now an overwhelming majority for a Clay win, how do we reckon the ringside boxing writers seemed to be almost split down the middle ?

    Could we be missing something on the film ?
    Or could they have had an agenda ?
    Or unconciously over-generous to the underdog ?
    Or is it just something more random and coincidental ?
     
    Legend X, Mar 31, 2012
    Legend X, Mar 31, 2012
    #45
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