Do you consider boxing to be a noble aristocratic sport?

Please forgive me, I completely forgot.

 

What an absolute load of bollocks. How do boxers represent that to any extent? Most boxers fight to make money and only to make money. You think they box in a ring to fight for their country or fight for their values? No they fight because they were poor at first, and they make a **** load of cash getting smacked in the face.

 

There are easier ways to make money.

 

That Homeric passage is good. Try this one from Statius:

[760] Scanning each other with their gaze and each awaiting the first opening, they fell not at once to angry blows, but stayed awhile in mutual fear, and mingled caution with their rage; they but incline their arms against each other as they spar, and make trial of their gloves, dulling them with mere rubs.58 The one, more skilfully trained, puts by his fury, and taking thought for the future delays and husbands up his strength; but the other, prodigal of harm and reckless of his powers, rushes with all his might and in wild blows exhausts both arms, and attacks with fruitless gnashing of teeth, and injures his own cause. But the Laconian, prudent and crafty, and with all his country’s vigilance, now parries, now avoids the blow; sometimes by the throwing back or rapid bending of his head he shuns all hurt, now with his hands he beats off the aimed assault, and advances with his feet while keeping his head drawn back.59 Often again, as his foe engages him with superior power – such strength is in his cunning, such skill in his right hand – with bold initiative he enters his guard and overshadows him, and towering high assails him. Just as a mass of water hurls itself headlong on a threatening rock, and falls back broken, so does he wheel round his angry foe, breaking his defence; look! he lifts his hand and threatens a long time his face or side, and thus by fear of his hard weapons diverts his guard and cunningly plants a sudden blow, and marks the middle of his forehead with a wound; blood flows, and the warm stream stains his temples. Capaneus, yet ignorant, wonders at the sudden murmur of the crowd, but when, as he chanced to draw his weary hand across his face, he saw the stains upon the cowhide, no lion nor tiger feeling the javelin’s smart was e’er so mad; hotly he drives the youth before him in headlong retreat over the whole field, and is forcing him on to his back; terribly he grinds his teeth and whirls his fists in countless repeated blows. The strokes are wasted on the winds, some fall on the gloves of his foe; with active movement and aid of nimble feet the Spartan eludes the thousand deaths that shower about his temples, yet not unmindful of his art he flees still fighting, and though fleeing meets blows with blows.

[796] And now both are wearied with the toil and their exhausted panting; slower the one pursues, nor is the other so swift to escape; the knees of both fail them and alike they rest. Thus when long wandering o’er the sea has wearied the mariners, the signal is given from the stern and they rest their arms awhile; but scarce have they taken repose, when another cry summons them to the oars again. Lo! a second time he makes a furious dash, but the other tricks him and goes at him with a rush of his own and sinking into his shoulders; forward he60 pitches on his head, and as he rises the merciless boy smote him another blow and himself grew pale at the success. The Inachidae raise a shout louder than the noise of shore or forest. But when Adrastus saw him struggling from the ground, and lifting his hands, intent on hideous deeds; “Haste, friends, I pray you, he is mad! hasten, prevent him! he is out of his mind – quick! bring the palm and the prizes! He will not cease, I see well, till he pounds the brain within the shattered skull. Rescue the doomed Laconian!” At once Tydeus darts forth, and Hippomedon, obedient to command; then scarce do the two with all their might master his two arms and bind them fast, and forcefully urge him: “Leave the field, thou art victorious; ‘tis noble to spare the vanquished. He too is one of us, and a comrade in the war.” But no whit is the hero’s fury lessened; he thrusts away the proffered branch and the cuirass, and shouts: “Let me free! Shall I not smash in gore and clotted dust those cheeks whereby that eunuch-boy gained favour, and send his unsightly corpse to the tomb and give cause for mourning to his Oebalian masters61?” So says he, but his friends force him away, swelling with wrath and protesting that he has not conquered, while the Laconians praise the nursling of famed Taygetus, and laugh loud at the other’s threats.

 

Not any more
The best don't face each other often enough
And I'm sick of hearing business in sport
Sport is sport and business is business
Fighters thinking they are business men oh dear oh dear

 

This thread isn't really about boxing.

It's about "what makes a man, a man?" and whether a man that has raised himself up from where he came, through suffering, is noble.

This thread really questions the definition of "aristocrat" as it is understood by people.

I would say that according to the OP's definition of aristocrat, then yes, boxing is an aristocratic sport.

According to the modern understanding of aristocracy, which is a bunch of soft over-fed 'nobles' noncing around in helicopters from one dinner gala to another, no it is not.

I'd expand the definition to include most combat sports that inflict damage, though.

 

This thread has got everything, I nearly spat tea all over the place

Gold. Not saying I agree necessarily but this is great nonetheless.

 

Legally in a poor environment?

 

Almost anything pays better than boxing the first few years. Usually, boxers have day jobs. You could work at a gas station and make more than most boxers. You have to be contender level at least before it pays anything good. Didn't Sergey Kovalev mention once that he made nothing his first fifteen fights? The average boxer on an ESPN televised bout used to make $1,500. Bare in mind they had a long time working up to that. It ain't like basketball or football where you can start making 100 grand minimum as soon as you go pro.

Almost nobody captures a title two or three years into their career like Pacquiao and Mayweather did to make serious money. Most boxers spend a long time in the trenches and get a title shot when they are 26-30. That's why Juan Manuel Marquez was an accountant until he was 30 and became a champion.

Something besides desire for money needs to fuel a boxer the first ten or so years he's learning his profession and sticking with it, something that makes him forgo other lucrative opportunities. Even a superstar like Ray Leonard turned out to be had a lot of money problems at first. He said that when he was an amateur in the Olympic boxing program he had to have his girlfriend and baby go on welfare and say they didn't know where he was, because he couldn't support them, and then he was blowing a trainer of his for extra money. He might have gone on to make one hundred million dollars but that was a rocky start. Boxing in the beginning is all sacrifices and no pay off.

 

Of course. Boxing also has the classiest fans.

 

Polo, Equestarian, Fencing, Croquet, Shooting are the most aristocratic sports.
Tennis and British Rugby where mainstream sports are concerned.

 

In the old days, boxing events were always attended by the avant-guarde. Miles Davis, Frank Sinatra and many other celebrities were huge boxing fans. You are dead on about boxing forums. I wonder how some of these guys make it in the real world.