Do you consider James J Jeffries an ATG?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mr.DagoWop, Jun 20, 2017.


Jeffries atg?

  1. Yes

    38 vote(s)
    71.7%
  2. No

    15 vote(s)
    28.3%
  1. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Here is the round by round summary of both the Goddard and the Everett fights with Jeffries.

    Goddard .
    Rd1. Goddard landed lightly with a left and right.Jeff Missed with a right then landed with a left over the heart.
    They exchanged light blows ,after Jeffries landed a light left,Goddard fell to his knees .Some thought he slipped.He rose but again fell down.The audience supposed something was wrong with his shoes for he seemed to trip each time.Jeff landed a right to the stomach and a right to the heart.Goddard began sprinting around the ring.
    Goddard did not want to mix it and was in survival mode.
    Rd 2.Goddard tried to keep away and Jeff tried to hit him.Goddard twice slipped or intentionally went to the floor without being hit .Joe seemed weak and frightened,he was on the defensive thoughout and seemed to be afraid of Jeffries. Jeff landeda right and left to the jawand twice more Godard tripped over a post and went downagain..Jeffries ducked right and dropped Goddard with a right in return.The press criticized Goddard for making little or no offensive attempts and for falling to the ground without cause.
    Goddard sprawled all over the stage clinched and grabbed Jeffries by the legs and misbehaved generally in such a foolish fashion that the crowd hissed and even Jeffries lost patience and cuffed his ears as he fell.
    Rd3.Goddard was even worse in this round ,ducking and falling down and grabbing Jef's legs inorder toavoid his rushes.Jeff landed an uppercut and Goddard went down he arose and went down again then slipped to his knees without being hit.After the round was over Goddard pulled of his gloves and quit.
    His seconds threw up the sponge to retire their fight.Joe said there was no use in fighting ,for he was unfit to cope with his opponent.The referee first awarded the fight to Jeffries then did a U turn and insisted that Goddard continue or he would not be paid,The referee felt Goddard had not put up much of an effort or was not sufficiently hurt to quit.
    The mention of money caused Goddard to quickly put on his gloves again,after two minutes intermission they resumed the fight..
    4thRd.
    Goddard made no effort to fight and was evidently looking for an opportunity to lie down.Jeff mostly dropped him with uppercuts when he was not on the floor.The exhibition became too contemptible and the referee stopped the fight in disgust and ordered the men out of the ring.The crowd was disgusted and showed it by hissing.
    Goddard said I didn't want to be knocked out and that man outclassed me so much I had no show.There was nothing for me to do but quit.
    Some alleged that Goddard had been drinking before the fight.
    Regardless Goddard was labelled as a quitter and an easy mark.He declared he was not drunk but his actions called to mind his recent fiasco with Sharkey in which the latter bested him,in a put up job,that was so bad that no boxing permits were issued for two months thereafter.
    The San Francisco Examiner.March 1st1898
    Goddard is a back number and has been for several years..
    There was consequently much surprise when he was matched with Jeffries for no one doubted the outcome.
    March 5th 1898 San Francisco Evening Post.Sports down in LA are denouncing the recent Jeffris Goddard fight as a fake,and there seems to be good reason for their suspicions.It has been discovered that just prior to enetering the ring the pugilists agreed to cut the purse and while the fight was progressing the referee says Goddard several times remonstrated with Jeffries for the manner in which he was hitting.The referee failed to explain why he did not cll the fight a No Contest. The 40 years old Goddard was not hospitalized and two months later fought Peter Maher.

    Everett.
    Rd1.Everett backed away with Jeffries trying to get him to lead.Everett ducked and clinched. Jeffries landed to lefts to the jaw.Evreet covered up Jeffries landed another left and Everett clinched again Jeffries laughed.
    Jeffries landed a right to the body the crowd laughed.One yelled don't hurt him Pete!
    Little damage was done in this round.
    Rd2.Everett threw a half hearted right to the body which did not land .Jeffries landed several light lefts to the head.
    and landed kidney shots in close.When Pete tried some feeble rights to the body both Jeff and the crowd laughed.
    Jeffries landed a series of short lefts and Pete crouched low and covered up crossing his arms in front of his face.The spectators jeered, Jeffries swung his left but Everett clung to his arm.Jeffries landed a right to the body.
    He shoved the crouching Everett around as he pleased. Everett fell down near the ropes but is was unclear if it was from a punch or a push..

    3rdRd.Two punches to Everett's arms lowered them and Jeffries landed a light left then a right the three more punches as Everett staggered, a left hook dropped Everett,he got up after seven seconds and covered up Jeffries landed a right and Everett turned for his corner trying to put his head out of the ropes,the referee intervened and told Jeffries to cease punching.
    Everett exhibited a strong inclination to quit. and the referee, fully appreciating the ridculousness of the situation promptly awarded the fight to Jeffries.
    Jeffries just laughed and said what was the matter with you? Why didn't you fight? I was only playing with you.
    Even the victor felt as though he was obtaining money and glory under false pretences.The Evening Post.
    Those who had paid $3 to watch felt fooled and withdrew from watching the treat in disgust.Everett was a rank dub of the worst kind who could not fight at all. He not only lacks the ordinary knowledge of boxing,but is further hampered by cowardice which showed itself before he had been in the ring a minute last night.The Evening Post

    He was slow and timid having made a sorry showing He was only there trying to survive ,ducking and clinching.
    The Examiner.
    The Call criticized he Olympic for matching Everett with a powerful man who had already proven his stature and called the fighta hippodrome and an even bigger matchmaking blunder than the Jackson fight.
    An account of the fight cannot be given for the very good reason there was no fight to report ! Jeffries merely played with him until he decided to end it.
    The Bulletin called Everett a fraud.
    Poor old Pete, I do not know whether he was scared to death or just clowning. Jim Jeffries .
    Everett was not bed ridden for several days he hadn't taken any punishment and he was only genuinely knocked down ONCE , not MULTIPLE TIMES ,he was back in the ring two months later.

    It's a pity neither you or Mr Callis could take some time off from your hero worship of Jeffries and spend it doing some research before making stupid and inaccurate statements that only serve to perpetuate these silly myths.

    At least have the decency not to repeat these fairy tales again!
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  2. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    I love how they were using the phrase "I was robbed" all the way back in 1899.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Here is the round by round summary of both the Goddard and the Everett fights with Jeffries.

    Goddard .
    Rd1. Goddard landed lightly with a left and right.Jeff Missed with a right then landed with a left over the heart.
    They exchanged light blows ,after Jeffries landed a light left,Goddard fell to his knees .Some thought he slipped.He rose but again fell down.The audience supposed something was wrong with his shoes for he seemed to trip each time.Jeff landed a right to the stomach and a right to the heart.Goddard began sprinting around the ring.
    Goddard did not want to mix it and was in survival mode.
    Rd 2.Goddard tried to keep away and Jeff tried to hit him.Goddard twice slipped or intentionally went to the floor without being hit .Joe seemed weak and frightened,he was on the defensive thoughout and seemed to be afraid of Jeffries. Jeff landeda right and left to the jawand twice more Godard tripped over a post and went downagain..Jeffries ducked right and dropped Goddard with a right in return.The press criticized Goddard for making little or no offensive attempts and for falling to the ground without cause.
    Goddard sprawled all over the stage clinched and grabbed Jeffries by the legs and misbehaved generally in such a foolish fashion that the crowd hissed and even Jeffries lost patience and cuffed his ears as he fell.
    Rd3.Goddard was even worse in this round ,ducking and falling down and grabbing Jef's legs inorder toavoid his rushes.Jeff landed an uppercut and Goddard went down he arose and went down again then slipped to his knees without being hit.After the round was over Goddard pulled of his gloves and quit.
    His seconds threw up the sponge to retire their fight.Joe said there was no use in fighting ,for he was unfit to cope with his opponent.The referee first awarded the fight to Jeffries then did a U turn and insisted that Goddard continue or he would not be paid,The referee felt Goddard had not put up much of an effort or was not sufficiently hurt to quit.
    The mention of money caused Goddard to quickly put on his gloves again,after two minutes intermission they resumed the fight..
    4thRd.
    Goddard made no effort to fight and was evidently looking for an opportunity to lie down.Jeff mostly dropped him with uppercuts when he was not on the floor.The exhibition became too contemptible and the referee stopped the fight in disgust and ordered the men out of the ring.The crowd was disgusted and showed it by hissing.
    Goddard said I didn't want to be knocked out and that man outclassed me so much I had no show.There was nothing for me to do but quit.
    Some alleged that Goddard had been drinking before the fight.
    Regardless Goddard was labelled as a quitter and an easy mark.He declared he was not drunk but his actions called to mind his recent fiasco with Sharkey in which the latter bested him,in a put up job,that was so bad that no boxing permits were issued for two months thereafter.
    The San Francisco Examiner.March 1st1898
    Goddard is a back number andhas been for several years..There was consequently much surprise when he was matched with Jeffries for no one doubted the outcome.
    March 5th 1898 San Francisco Evening Post.Sports down inLa are denouncing the recent Jeffris Goddard figth asa fake,and there seems to be good reason for their suspicions.It has been discovered that just prior to enetering the ring the pugilists agreed to cut the purse and while the fight was progressing the referee says Goddard several times remonstrated with Jeffries for the manner in which he was hitting.The referee failed to explain why he did not cll the fight a No Contest. The 40 years old Goddard was not hospitalized and two months later fought Peter Maher.

    Everett.
    Rd1.Everett backed away with Jeffries trying to get him to lead.Everett ducked and clinched. Jeffries landed to lefts to the jaw.Evreet covered up Jeffries landed another left and Everett clinched again Jeffries laughed.
    Jeffries landed a right to the body the crowd laughed.One yelled don't hurt him Pete!
    Little damage was done in this round.
    Rd2.Everett threw a half hearted right to the body which did not land .Jeffries landed several light lefts to the head.
    and landed kidney shots in close.When Pete tried some feeble rights to the body both Jeff and the crowd laughed.
    Jeff ries landed a series of short lefts and Pete crouched low and covered up crossing his arms in front of his face.The spectators jeered Jeffries swung his left but Everett clung to his arm.Jeffries landed a right to the body.
    He shoved the crouching Everett around as he pleased. Everett fell down near the ropes but is was unclear if it was from a punch or a push..
    3rdRd.Two punches to Everett's arms lowered them and Jeffries landed a light left then a right the three more punches as Everett staggered a left hook dropped Everett,he got up after seven seconds and covered up Jeffries landed a right and Everett turned for his corner trying to put his head out of the ropes,the referee intervened and to Jeffries to cease punching. Everett exhibited strong inclination to quit. and the referee fully appreciatingthe ridculousness of the situation promptly awarded the fight to Jeffries.Jeffries just laughed and said what was the matter with you? Why didn't you fight? I was only playing with you.
    Even the victor felt as though he was obtaining money and glory under false pretences.The Evening Post.
    Those who had paid $3 to watch felt fooled and withdrew from watching the treat in disgust.Everett was a rank dub of th e worst kind who could not fight at all. He not only lacks the ordinary knowledge of boxing,but is further hampered by cowardice which showed itself before he had been in the ring a minute last night.The Evening Post

    He was slow and timid having made a sorry showing He was only there trying to survive ,ducking and clinching.
    The Examiner.
    The Call criticized he Olympic for matching Everett with a powerful man who had already proven his stature and called the fighta hippodrome and an even bigger matchmaking blunder than the Jackson fight.
    An account of the fight cannot be given for the very good reason there was no fight to report ! Jeffries merely played with him until he decided to end it.
    The Bulletin called Everett a fraud.
    Poor old Pete, I do not know whether he was scared to death or just clowning. Jim Jeffries .
    Everett was not bed ridden for several days he hadn't taken any punishment and he was only genuinely knocked down ONCE , not MULTIPLE TIMES ,he was back in the ring two months . Its a pity neither you or Mr Callis could take sometime off from your hero worship of Jeffries and spend it doing some research before making stupid and inaccurate statements that only serve to perpetuate these silly myths.
     
  4. richdanahuff

    richdanahuff Boxing Addict Full Member

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  5. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Goddard was undoubtedly a world class fighter in his prime, but this was obviously well past his prime.

    No these were not world class fighters, but they were still tough assignments on paper for a six fight novice, which is basically what Jeffries was.

    He was being matched hard, but at the same time not matched to lose.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This was Jeffries 11th confirmed fight.Pollack states that Jeffries was having up to 3 contests week at his AC but because he had promised his Mother he would not turn pro they were labelled exhibitions.
    The Olympic was criticized for matching Jeffries with Everett it was seen as a mismatch ,a foregone conclusion.


    "Their meeting proved to be a veritable farce, for Everett was completely outclassed by his burly opponent. He never had a chance to strike an effective blow and only Jeffries' good nature saved him from being thoroughly whipped before Referee Ward stopped the proceedings by awarding the fight to Jeffries." (Cripple Creek Morning Times) According to the Los Angeles Herald "...there appeared to be fully 50 pounds difference between them when stripped for the fray."
    No fault of Jeffries I posted the rounds summaries to prove no real damage was done to either of his opponents ,both essentially quit.That is contrary to what Mendoza and Callis said.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  7. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is a guy who would go on to hold Jack Johnson to a draw.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    "
    I'm posting the reports of the fights and the round by round summaries to prove that neither Goddard or Everett took a great deal of punishment,that both essentially quit, this isn't to slag Jeffries off its to demonstrate Mendoza's post was full of fairy tales..
    I've already said it was not Jeffries fault if neither showed any ambition or inclination to fight and I'm very aware of Everett's record ,and perhaps more up to speed with it than even you are ,and also the amount of fights that Jeffries had taken part in! I suggest you do a little research into the Johnson v Everett fight before accepting the result as it stands.

    For a start Johnson was described as outweighed by at least 20lbs! Pollack describes him as a super middleweight /lightheavy.
    The contest was described as a tame hugging affair and probably a fix.
    "It was plainly evident that the match was fixed and it was very tame throughout.The house was worth about $500nto the fighters and management.Everett was very slow,while Johnson proved himself a good man and could have at any stage of the game have put the Mexican out."
    The Denver Daily News Aug 15th 1901.
    Puts a different perspective on things doesn't it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017