Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

You've conceded to the first point, that's enough for me today

 

Solid lightweight champ' with 3 solid wins and only man to stop Casamayor and Juan Diaz at the weight.

Not great so I can see your point. All his most impressive work was done when he was getting on and looked past it IMO.

Lo and behold he looks incredible again now

 

Not at all.

But Pacquiao is an all-time great. And Márquez has bested him as the capstone of a great career.

Márquez no longer needs any particular endorsement. His record speaks for itself.

 

Well said.

And, yes, I too have got Márquez among the Top 5 great Mexicans.

 

Pac won the first two. JMM was lucky to get that draw.

 

He got lucky by winning 8-9 rounds?

No way in this universe Pac won the second, maybe you watched it in a parallel dimension somewhere where Pac has a better defence but not in this one

 

i like ya PP but i gotta disagree

i had pac winning the first 2 by a point. could easily see the same score for marquez. they were ridiculously close but marquez's performances in both, the first especially, get a bit overblown for me

he won most of the 11 rounds after the first in the first fight (7-4 on my card) but he didn't beat pac from pillar to post. the first round was 10-6 and they gave pac the edge for me

gave pac the 2nd fight to, 6-6 with an extra point for the knockdown. if the ref had called the second knockdown when marquez held on to the ropes to stay up, it would be even clearer

haven't seen the third

 

What i'm alluding to is the parallel between the two of them..repeated attempts vs the same opponent (JJW vs Charles/JMM vs Pac) before scoring 1 punch ko's over their nemesis...and i liken JMM to Walcott inasfar as his overall abilities are concerned. He's an excellent fighter, but not the alltime great he's being pumped up to be by you guys. Not even the greatest Mexican champ of all time.

 

Same as.

To be honest I cannot see any way in which Pacquiao has won 2 or 3.

 

Don't you think JMM has slipped a bit too, at age 39 ?
If not, he must be truly great to have remained so good for so long.

 

Absolutely an ATG...anything less would be a robbery...like that one match he had...:hey

 

The parallel is not without merit, but is misleading: Walcott had retired 6 times before finally winning the crown at age 37. He is no Juan Manuel Márquez.

 

I have it 4-0 for Marquez, but I can absolutely see scoring the first fight to Manny.

2nd fight was close, but the only way to have it for Pac is to have it 6-6. NO WAY did Pacquiao win 7 rounds. I had Marquez winning seven rounds, close fight, Manny got it, these things happen.

Third fight, Pacquiao got a gift. Period. He was schooled, 8-4.

And, of course, 4th fight he got KTFO.

I think Marquez has proven to be more then Pacquiao's match in terms of actual ability in the ring. They are on the same tier of fighter in terms of skill and ability. Pacquiao accomplished more with his career, and it will probably go down in history that way, because I see Marquez as being near the end.

 

I agree.

 

So I'm not the only one on here who has Marquez winning the series 4-zip......