Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

Addie you really have to stop your nonsense with Marquez. I read all your comebacks with PP and you got to put down the haterade. He made some very good points and you continue to twist it all around to try and make your weak points. If i used the same method u do to discredit Marquez. Well i think i can make a case for just about any fighter in history being overrated and not worthy of being labled an atg. Bottom line is this, whenever i see a pfp atg list wherever you see Barrera,Morales then Marquez should be in the same vicinity.

 

So Whitaker/Chavez dont count because they were 34, but when he was 34/35 those loses count big right. Oh yea and he's not great because he got robbed against Trinidad

 

WHittaker turned back the hands of time for that fight,he wouldnt have done any better a few years earlier. Tito,Mosley II:huh Get ****ing seriousatsch Thats where me and you are different you just believe anything the judges tell you and roll with it:-( Maybe thats why you dont rate Marquez higher.

As for the ODLH arguments im tired of them just like i am with Finito. You know im a Marco fan but id rate ODLH about 20 spots higher than Barrera.
If you wanna argue about ODLh maybe ill give ULI a Pm he never gets tired of going back and forth about Oscar and even makes better points than i do on this subject.

 

Most spot on post youve made on this thread:good

 

1. Wait didn't you say you watched fights instead of looking at boxrec If were going by what judges say Whitaker didnt beat Chavez. Judges aren't the be and end all

2. And Gainer who's a tricky FW proporsition for most

3. Gainer was a very good win. The Norwood fight which was close was and another great avoided opponent, I wouldn't be suprised if Norwood beat MAB/Morales/Pac, not saying he would either, he was proven, fast, tricky, skilled southpaw who was also avoided. Chris John is an excellent technical boxer. Medina is a 6 time champ, and yes tricky. Peden went on to beat Campbell. Polo outboxed WBO champ Harrison and got jobbed, Salido a future titlist. The other Pinoy and Thai fighter I think were borderline top10. Not all those are great but lots of styles that Marquez is testing himself against and facing different styles even if they aren't elite can show lesser fighters up

4. I'm not sure what that means, but we do speculate in general about fighters

5. I'm not sure how stating the facts about the opponents is implying anything, may I repeat: Marquez was the same age as MAB and Casa and past his prime himself. MAB was lineal SFW champ when JMM beat him, Casa was LW lineal champ when JMM KO'd him. Diaz was a top3 LW when JMM ko'd him. Now he's fighting a young bull in Katsidis, he'll beat him too despite being 37

Impressive wins

 

If fighters who aren't good can only take 50% of the rounds against Marquez, does that make Pacquaio ****

 

Power Puncher is Mexican?!?!!!!!!?

 

It makes Marquez not that impressive at that weight.

 

Marquez has generally faced opponents throughout his career more stylistically challenging than Morales ever did and perhaps even than Barrera did at times. It's always been stated by his detractors (and his admirers) that good movers and counterpunchers who don't take the lead stand a good chance of beating him. Even if you don't rank Marquez as a true ATG - a fair enough stance - it's negligent to forget the convincing jobs that he did on on the Polo's, Medina's and Salido's, the likes of whom should have been hard matchups on paper and were types who no-one else wanted to fight for one reason or another.
Barrera has his recovery from heavy defeats and the great win over Hamed to perhaps distinguish himself slightly, even though Hamed was made for him in many ways. Otherwise, the records of himself, Morales and Marquez are close to even as far I can tell. Doing as well as Marquez did against Pac (I thought he won both times) is arguably as good as beating Morales two out of three or taking one from a trilogy with Pacquiao himself before losing heavily in the subsequent rematches.

It might also be worth saying I reckon that a prime Barrera might have edged a prime Marquez whereas a prime Morales could well have been outboxed.