Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

Trust me, you haven't owned anyone, you've never owned anyone. You just embarrass yourself using ridiculous terminology.

You're 40 years of age. Raise the bar.

 

One can't fail to be impressed with Juan Manuel Marquez when he's fighting lesser opposition. The context we're discussing him in here though would require a little bit more of him in my estimation. There's never been any question even in my mind that in terms of ability he should certainly be ranked alongside his Mexican contemporaries, but I think there's additional factors to consider when evaluating the greatness of fighters.

The three punch combination he lands in the Manuel Medina fight, a one-two followed by a left uppercut, was certainly memorable. :good

Revisionist history. The odds tell a different story. It was thought to be believed that Marco Antonio Barrera was far to aggressive and hittable to be able to sustain the punching power of The Prince for 12 rounds. He had shown boxing ability before, certainly, and looked astounding against Jesus Salud, but that was against a former contender who was nearing the end of his career, Hamed was a P4P rated fighter without a blemish on his record. In hindsight, we say that Barrera had his number and that Morales and Marquez would have done a similar job, but that's all speculation.

This is where we differ. I don't credit him for having defeated Manny Pacquiao, and I certainly believe Barrera and Morales' respective victories over one another and Morales over Pacquiao to be infinitely more impressive than anything on Dinamita's win column. As I said in my opening post, I do think it almost depends entirely on how you view Marquez's two fights with Manny Pacquiao.

Who knows. Marquez has lost to lesser fighters than Erik Morales in his prime, whereas I can't really say the same, vice versa.

 

Absolutely.

You'll notice that I said that even in despite of his losses, Oscar is sporting a very healthy resume by contemporary standards. Victories over Quartey, Whitaker, Vargas, Mayorga, and Hernandez is good form. Perhaps we should stop and think about what it is we're actually arguing about here. I haven't made any definitive statements about Oscar De La Hoya regarding any placements. I've already acknowledged that I need to do more research before I step into that territory. That being said, I do believe it to be true that he lost the majority of his biggest fights. I don't see any other way to see it.

 

I've described it as a good win. I think that does it justice.

 

We're talking about his record in reality, not in Anarci's alternate universe.