Do you consider Ray Leonard among the 20 Greatest fighters of all-time ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Jul 17, 2008.


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  1. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I have him at 16
     
    Minotauro, Jul 17, 2008
    Minotauro, Jul 17, 2008
    #16
  2. natonic

    natonic Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That's awesome! Kudos for your objectivity!
     
    natonic, Jul 17, 2008
    natonic, Jul 17, 2008
    #17
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    These twenty for a start (not in any order) :

    Sam Langford
    Harry Greb
    Henry Armstrong
    Sugar Ray Robinson
    Joe Louis
    Benny Leonard
    Joe Gans
    Mickey Walker
    Muhammad Ali
    Ezzard Charles
    Carlos Monzon
    Barney Ross
    Roberto Duran
    Bob Fitzsimmons
    Charley Burley
    Tony Canzoneri
    Willie Pep
    Eder Jofre
    Marvin Hagler
    Kid Chocolate
     
    Unforgiven, Jul 17, 2008
    Unforgiven, Jul 17, 2008
    #18
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think MICHAEL SPINKS compares favourably against Ray Leonard too.

    Spinks wasn't the glamourous poster-boy that Leonard was, and nor were his opponents, but his career in the 80s is arguably superior to Leonard's.
    Spinks was UNBEATEN at his weight, and hung around there for 3-5 years at the top taking on the best - and very good crop. And he stepped right up to heavyweight to take on Holmes, a man 40 pounds bigger than anyone he'd faced. That was as big an upset as Leonard against Hagler.
     
    Unforgiven, Jul 17, 2008
    Unforgiven, Jul 17, 2008
    #19
  5. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I disagree with Chocolate right off the bat, as he had a good resume, faced great opposition, but while he beat some of them, he lost to most of the top tier guys, whereas Leonard beat all of his in his prime.
     
    Sweet Pea, Jul 17, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Jul 17, 2008
    #20
  6. natonic

    natonic Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You make a valid argument about Spinks. He's often overlooked historically.
     
    natonic, Jul 17, 2008
    natonic, Jul 17, 2008
    #21
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, I would. I understand those who feel his career was to short, but if you take his skill and assets into the equation there's really no way to get past that he's at least top 20 material, maybe top 10, IMO. Speed, technique, power, chin, stamina, courage and boxing brain. Dancer, stalker and even brawler. Hard one to improve on.
     
    Bokaj, Jul 17, 2008
    Bokaj, Jul 17, 2008
    #22
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Bigger actually. I remember Ray being 5-1 but he may have firmed into about 3-1. My memory of Spinks - Holmes had Holmes about a 6-1 fave.
     
    JohnThomas1, Jul 17, 2008
    JohnThomas1, Jul 17, 2008
    #23
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Reports suggest his 15-rounders with Canzoneri, Berg, the first fight with Battalino were robberies.
     
    Unforgiven, Jul 17, 2008
    Unforgiven, Jul 17, 2008
    #24
  10. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Apparently there is footage of his bout with Canzoneri, though I'm not sure exactly how much. I do believe that Raging B(_)LL has it, maybe he can shed some light.
     
    Sweet Pea, Jul 17, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Jul 17, 2008
    #25
  11. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Sugar Ray Leonard is a lock for top 10 in my opinion. Whilst his career was short, a fighter gets more credibility from me if they fought great fighters, and nobody fought better opposition like Ray and won.
     
    Addie, Jul 17, 2008
    Addie, Jul 17, 2008
    #26
  12. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Agreed. Floyd Mayweather and Joe Calzaghe have had longer careers and have remained undefeated, but they have never beaten guys of Duran, Hagler or Hearns quality, so SRL belongs above the likes of those guys.
     
    DINAMITA, Jul 17, 2008
    DINAMITA, Jul 17, 2008
    #27
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Obviously. No arguments here.

    These are all very close. I can see arguments either way. Take Louis. He has nothing like the wins that Leonard has got, and his loss at peak, to Schmeling, is arguably more damaging than Leonard's loss to Duran (Duran being rated higher on my welterweight list than Schmeling is on my Heavyweight list, as well being in my top 10 all time, whereas Schmeling is nowhere), and Leonard's big wins being better than Louis' win.

    I won't say that the opposing position - Louis has dominance over an era in a way Leonard does not - is ridiculous, but surely you can't see the above as silly? I have Leonard 3 places above Louis, am I stupid?

    Of course.

    Aruably, Leonard has the a better win at Middle than the one-weight Monzon does!

    The arguments can be made. I have no problem with any of these being above Leonard. Duran MUST be.


    ....I want very much to agree. But Leonard has better wins at middleweight, and although I pick Burley head to head, where is the Burley dominance to make up for Leonard's better wins?

    Chocolate is a reach. Let's hear the argument. But if I were you I would retract, because this is not sensible (no disprespect).
     
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2008
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2008
    #28
  14. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    We are talking Ray Leonard, not Robinson!;)


    Leonard did indeed met and beat his fair share of brilliant fighters, but his numbers do not add up compared to a Greb or Robinson.

    Leonard is easily a top 20 all-time fighter, but he does not get to the very top because his resume is not strong enough. Getting off the floor and beating Kevin Howard in a five year spell when you could of been at your very best is not going to cut it.
     
    TBooze, Jul 17, 2008
    TBooze, Jul 17, 2008
    #29
  15. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    :yep
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Jul 17, 2008
    My dinner with Conteh, Jul 17, 2008
    #30
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