Do you consider Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua to be all time greats ?

He’s above AJ but who did he beat ? Wilder and 39 year old Wlad, and then Chisora and Whyte. He never did enough to be an ATG

 

Definitely not

 

Wilder wins are extremely underrated tbh

 

It's not a "lol, no," but it's a no. If they fought the winner will have done enough. They are both knocking at the door but not quite stepping through.

 

No, neither quite is.

Joshua is closer - whilst far and away the less interesting personality, his resume is better, desire to make good fights was far better, didn't get busted with PED's and far less controversy in victories (despite actual losses, there's not the same kind of moments as Fury had against Ngannou, McDermott, Cunningham).

In the fullness of time, I suspect it'll come to be seen this way... But who knows, Fury's the more interesting story and that always holds some attraction.

 

No

In era greats but not ATG

similar to Vitali Klitschko and Riddick Bowe

 

ATG no but definitely HOF.

 

Then no.

 

Probably not but both were at the top or near it for their era. Now they are ancient. I’ll take either over a 39 year old Ali or ancient Holmes. Fury moves better than any man of his size from previous generations. It’s too bad guys don’t fight as frequently as the once did but I guess it extends their careers so there is an upside.

Whats with the ad banner across my screen (mobile version)? Do I have a virus or did this great forum add some strange ads?

 

"his resume is better"

Inferior top wins, double the losses, two by KO. No.

"desire to make good fights was far better"

If the big cash cow (who has been badly exposed halfway through his career) struggles to get good fights, it's his own management blocking them.

Fury fought Usyk x2, champ Wlad in Germany, Wilder x3 in America. Was pulled out on by Haye. Whyte and Chisora x3.

Joshua fought Usyk x2, dethroned Wlad in London, old Povetkin, Dubois. Whyte, Parker and Ruiz x2.

I don't see "much more desire to make good fights".

"In the fullness of time, I suspect it'll come to be seen this way"

The Ruiz tape in itself will prevent this from ever being the case.


In response to the OP's question, Fury had ATG ability at his best. His performances against Wlad and Wilder 2 in particular. The second Chisora fight was also unprecedented. Usyk and Vitali weren't nearly as dominant, Fury boxed over 80% of the fight in southpaw and made him quit, which Chisora never did before or since.

Joshua has never shown ATG ability against his best opponents, frequently lost but he's sometimes looked very impressive against inferior fighters (Kevin, Cornish, Martin, Wallin, Ngannou). Had Wlad and Povetkin been a couple of years younger and fighting in a neutral or favourable venue I think they'd have beaten him.

 

Yep there are some harsh critics on here that expect way too much from fighters in this brutal sport.

 

Had Wlad been younger he would have beaten Fury too

 

He was younger when he fought Fury, with home/A-side advantage and lost 11-1 (Boxrec). I don't see it.