Do you consider Tyson to be a H2H top 5 heavyweight?

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying about those fighters, although the Lennox point you made seems ambiguous to me. What I'm saying is credit to Buster Douglas for beating the life out of prime Mike Tyson. Nothing else, no agenda, just a straight point and a comment to be taken on face value.

I'm not irritated my friend.

 

haha I don't think that, not at all. I do differentiate between a fighter schooling someone and then burning out and a fighter being chopped down late after gassing out but each to their own!

 

After seeing Lewis fight Bruno and then get stopped by Mcall, do you think he could have achieved what he did had he not? I mean he barely mentally made it through the Mercer fight. He was having a temper tantrum between rounds, but yes thats my opinion. I dont believe he would have gotten past Mercer, which would have put him way down on the contention ladder, because he was not aligned with King and didnt want anything to do with him.

 

Credit to Lennox Lewis on what he achieved. Nothing else.

Same to every other fighter ever.

 

Douglas beat the **** out of Tyson, there is no denying that.

 

Well he knocked bruno out and was countered for a dubious stoppage in the fights you mention.

Either way there's no saying another trainer wouldn't have had better success. Infact in a parallel universe somewhere that's exactly what happened with the only difference being a series of different choices.

 

If Lefthook is going to credit Emmanual for Lewis' success that the trainers of Ali, Foreman, Bowe, Tyson, Louis etc. deserve equal credit. it's strange to suggest Lewis is where he is because of his trainer and not think the same applies to almost every successful fighter.

 

Differentiate, yes; award less credit, no.

 

One would think so.

 

Yes I believe the trainer is really that big of factor. Why is it strange to suggest that? Lewis himself has said it.

 

If the trainer is a constant issue across the board it's not really worth mentioning.

 

People think fighters are just born to be ATG. Sure they may have it in them, but it takes the right person to teach them and bring it out of them. Its not as simple as most people think, thats why there are so few great fighters compared to the number that compete. It takes a combination of a lot of things. It is worth mentioning because its a major factor.

 

I'll have to agree to disagree but only to a degree (no rhyme intended)

I don't give much credit to how Maxim beat Robinson.

What you're effectively saying is you give the same amount of credit to the method in which Ali beat Foreman, letting him tire himself out and then stopping him, to the method in which Maxim beat Robinson. You better believe I give more credit to Ali yes. Each to their own.

 

lennox definitely deserves credit for every fight he ever won. Is this actually being debated? I think I need to pinch myself and wake up.

 

Ali is an interesting exception to the rule. So mentally tough and set in his ways. I do think he probably could have beaten Foreman an easier way, but I also think Dundee was a major factor in his career. Trainers bring them to their plateau, certain things change when they reach it, but ulitmately its the trainer that gets them to that level where they feel they cant lose.