Do you consider Tyson to be a H2H top 5 heavyweight?

Credit to fighters for winning fights.

Credit to trainers for training fighters.

 

But a constant factor right? Why just mention lewis, you might as well say it's that way for every fighter.

I think you over credit steward by saying he's the only man who could have brought success to lewis.

 

Did I say that? The only man? Dont put words in my mouth. I said he was a big factor in making Lewis the consistent pro he became. Steward wasnt the only great trainer qualified, but Pepe Correa obviously was not.

 

A fair post.
Although when thinking of Tyson h2h, you got to think of the late 80's version. When putting anyone h2h you go with the best version. I do anyway.

 

No i'm not effectively saying that. Ali was up on the cards at the time of the stoppage.

A better example would be that guy who fought la motta, I forget his name now, he was schooling jake for the first 9 rounds or so but his punches weren't hurting jake and he was putting everything into them despite the lack of effect they were having. Instead of beginning to play it safe he carried on throwing until he tired himself out and jake battered him all over knocking him down several times and actually knocking him out 5 seconds before the bell (the guy got the decision but in reality jake knocked him out)

I could be a bit off there but ya get the point? A dominant display that can't be maintained is pointless if there's no plan b afterwards to reduce the pace. Credit to the victor for holding in there and doing what was required.

What is it we're actually disagreeing on here, I can't remember.

I'll close with maxim deserves credit :good

 

We're disagreeing on me saying I differentiate between a man chopping an opponent down late after being schooled and a man schooling a man and then collapsing and being unable to finish a fight................and you replying by saying-

'differentiate yes, award less credit no'

^that's where the debate was. I already said I give Maxim credit, but not as much credit as I would if he would have stopped Robinson with a punch, which is what you're saying you're willing to do, and are doing.

I give Maxim credit for getting in the ring (every fighter has my credit and respect for this). I give Maxim credit for outlasting his opponent. That's it. You can say what you want about Maxim being the winner on merit and it may be nice in theory but if you watch that fight it's very evident that there was a nicely sized element of luck in his victory.

 

Louis,Ali,Lewis,Holyfield,Johnson ank ahed of him i think

 

I knew I was going off on a tangent

Yeah even if robinson had have carried on the next round just to be knocked out by maxim, I wouldn't award extra credit for that.

What you call luck, I call stupidity on the part of robinson. He knew he was tiring and knew he was against a man willing to go the distance yet he kept it up. Joey did what he needed to do.

Just as spoon did against bruno, some could say he looked out because bruno was poorly conditioned, or some could say he stayed in there until frank tired himself out before pouncing.

Spoon gets the same credit for me as maxim did. Not sure exactly how much credit that is but it's in the same tier for me.

 

Ok I'm gunna make my last post on this now cos we're just going back and forth saying the same things as our last posts but with different words. As I say, this quote of yours-

'What you call luck, I call stupidity on the part of robinson. He knew he was tiring and knew he was against a man willing to go the distance yet he kept it up. Joey did what he needed to do'

is good on paper but when I watch the fight and see how much of a schooling it was I can't uphold it. If Maxim would have ko'd him with a punch I would have given him a lot more credit.

I look at it like this-

Nothing that Maxim did was all that. On the same night Robinson would have employed the same strategy against a Bob Foster for example, and he would have passed out all the same, it's not his opponent that made the ultimate difference. It's not as though Maxim actually forced the stoppage, he stood there getting embarrassed until his opponent passed out. If that fight happened on a cold night there is only one winner and it's definitely not Joey Maxim.

I hope you don't credit Dawson with a round 2 ko over Hopkins the same way you would if he would have actually laid him out with a shot man!! Just sayin. Ok I'm off to watch a film now and relax for a bit.

Later my friend.

 

We have no idea if foster would have shown the same patience as maxim did, he too could have succumbed to the heat.

Agree to disagree.

No that's clearly, by wbc rules, a technical draw unless body slamming is a legitimate boxing move

Bourne ultimatum by any chance?

Peace out.

 

Ok then, Maxim was a top strategist in the Robinson fight, what a tactician, he made Bernard Hopkins look like Ricky Hatton in comparison!

(I'm kidding)

agree to disagree, no worries, Frank Bruno forever baby

 

Ring iq is actually measured in units known as maxims :good

Damn you know the way to my heart.

From now on i'm just gonna "+1" every post you ever make. Ever.

 

:rofl

+1,000,000,000,000,000

 

Yes you did. Hence my response.

Look back, the part of your quote I first highlighted.

 

Your taking it out of context. Regardless Steward was a big reason for his success. As I said there were other qualified trainers, but the guy he was with would have not gotten him as far.