Do you give Zale a pass for fighting graziano over number 1 rated Lamotta?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Aug 24, 2015.


  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Does Zale get a pass for fighting graziano over number 1 rated Lamotta and number 2 rated Burley?
     
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Of course.
    Graziano was the bigger draw. The money was bigger.
    The promoter who ran boxing wanted Zale-Graziano. The fans wanted Zale-Graziano.

    Also, LaMotta, Burley .. who perhaps were rated ahead of Graziano, hadn't actually faced each other or faced Graziano, so there was no convincing reason for Zale to pass on Graziano on any grounds whatsoever.
     
  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Well that's because graziano was busy fighting tomato cans and small welterweights, while Burley and Lamotta took on hall of fame middleweights
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    At that stage of his career yes.
     
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    So you're ok with a champion bypassing his number 1 and number 2 contenders to fight a much weaker number 3 contender?

    Do you also give Zale a free pass for missing out on the entire murderers row?
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    And ... nobody cared.

    Zale-Graziano 1 drew almost $350,000, a considerable amount for a middleweight fight. And the fans were not disappointed, setting up a return match the next summer.

    Burley would have drawn miserable amount in comparison.

    Also, Graziano was the betting favourite, so he was not considered a "soft touch" for the comebacking Zale at all.
     
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Compared to Lamotta and Burley, he was a very soft touch

    graziano grew up in the same neighborhood as Lamotta. He wouldn't have gotten in the ring with Lamotta under any circumstances
     
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    They do it all the time.
    Especially if #3 is the money fight.

    Only an idiot would fight the 'tougher' opponent for less money, and against the wishes of the fans.
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Nobody cared.
    Graziano was considered a legitimate threat to a champion who had been out for 4 years during the war.
    He proved to be too.

    Your criticisms make no sense. Zale fought the fighter people wanted him to fight. Zale accepted the fight that brought in the big money.
    He was a professional. Boxing was his job.
    So what should he have done ?
     
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    You're defending Zale a lot

    Answer these questions for me

    Where do you rate Zale all time at 160?

    How do you see Zale doing vs the following

    Vs

    Lamotta
    Burley
    Moore
    Charles
    Williams
    Booker
    Marshall
    Chase
    Kid

    ???
     
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I don't know. The greatest middleweights of all time in the greatest era in middeleweight history were actively fighting in there primes when Zale was. Maybe he could have fought just one of them? Is that too much to ask?

    He got a trip to the hall of fame being practically untested his whole career
     
  12. Warwick Hunt

    Warwick Hunt Active Member Full Member

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    Can you just remind me the name of that group of fighters again Suzie? :roll:
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Only against your constant ridiculous attacks. I'm telling you where you are wrong.
    Most of us are bored of you. I won't waste much more time on this.

    I don't have an all-time list at 160.
    Zale was a decent champion, a good one even. Also, regaining the title was a great achievement.

    I haven't seen most of those fighters. Have you ?
     
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I've been on this forum for 10 years. I have brought a lot of rare footage, information to this forum over the past 10 years. I am not going anywhere. I have the right to criticize fighters I feel are being overrated.

    I have seen most of those fighters, not all of them.

    I don't view Zale as a great fighter. I am big on resumes, fighting the best of your era, and showcasing ability in the ring, Zale gets low marks on all 3 of my criteria
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You asked a specific question, I answered it.

    You've mentioned Lamotta. Jake won the title in June 1949, the number one challenger at the end of the year was Robinson ,Robinson was the number one challenger for 1950 too yet Lamotta didn't fight him until Febuary 1951?

    Are you ok with that? Does Jake get," a free pass for that"?:think
    How about Lamotta not defending against Dave Sands who was the number 2 contender in1949, and number 3 in 1950?
    How about Jake having 4 over the weight fights after he won the title? Yet not defending it until the next year when he fought Tiberio Mitri in July, a full 11 months later ? You seem somewhat selective about whom you castigate to me.:huh