Do you hold it against Larry Holmes for not fighting Greg Page

Ok, this is just a theory, an idea but hear me out. I think Renaldo Snipes was a benchmark for the level of 99% of the top heavyweights back in the early to mid 1980s. I'm talking belt holders. Not Holmes and not Tyson.

I have watched all Snipes fights (at the time and since) and unlike a lot of 1980s guys Snipes was always in shape and never really looked any better or worse against any one guy during that period.

Regardless of scores, if you score the fights yourself most will find Snipes either beat or drew with Witherspoon and Berbick or lost or drew with Page, Coetzee and Frank.

Thomas drew with a guy (Coetzee) who either beat or drew with (Snipes) the guy who lost or drew with Scott Frank. Again its just an idea but how far can Thomas be from Frank?

It's not just Thomas. Tyson wins a WBC title off Berbick the man who lost to Snipes who either lost or drew with Frank. How far was Berbick from Frank?

Now maybe Witherspoon improved after his close fight with Snipes but his condition and desire was always erratic after that point. How far was he ever really from Snipes and therefore Frank?

The 1980s were very strange.

 

I generally don't like " connect the dots" games. Renaldo Snipes was a tough game fighter, but a step below several of the alphabet champions in the 80's. He fought on even terms with a 14 fight Witherspoon and its not entirely clear who earned that decision. Coetzee deserved the win over Renaldo. I've even heard opinions about his fight with Saad Muhammad as possibly going the other way.. He also lost to Alfredo Evangelista and Ricky Parky. He was a decent fighter who had some good moments, but not quite on the level of Thomas, Weaver, or Witherspoon ( at his best. ) That being said, Scott Frank should not be compared to Pinklon Thomas on the sole basis of picking up a draw with Snipes.

 

Snipes probably got robbed against Witherspoon, but was a force for a good 2 years, like James Tillis.

 

I agree with this Magoo and I know you are of the opinion that I am very strong against Holmes and I can be redundant on these issues. I thought Larry Holmes did a great transformation into the pro's and I loved his jab, one of the best next to Louis,Ali and Vlad that being said the thing that enraged me at the time was that there were fights I wanted to see that should have been made and Larry had ample time to do so.

another factor was Larry and King hand-picked guy that had deficiency's like lack of experience and low power- and not to be redundant Ha Ha here is just a few and we all know there were better, more dangerous fights out there that the fans wanted to see. I do feel that Larry would have been better tested if he made an attempt to fight the best. On a positive note Larry had the consistent condition,longevity and best total package of skills but look at these guys and you know they were hand-picked and the least of all evils

22-fight-Snipes, he won 1 fight of his next 7
14-fight Bey won 4 of his next 16
10 fight Marvis-very low on punching power
10-2-2 Leon Spinks was already KO'd in 1 by Coetzee
14-fight James Smith won 1 of his next 5
26-8-4 Scott Ledoux, won 1 of his previous 4 prior to fighting Holmes
20-2 Cobb was Cobb tough but already beaten by Norton & Dokes
Evangelista,Zanon, Rodriguez- Enough said
15-fight Tim Spoon-some think Spoon won-no rematch
16-fight Carl Williams, some think Carl won-no rematch & Carl stopped unbeaten Jess Ferguson after
18-1 Trevor Berbick, he did stop Tate after Tate was ruined by Weaver (Weaver should have been the fight) Berbick was already stopped in by Mercado and drew with 21-19-3 Leroy Caldwell
24-0-1 Leroy Jones no power
20-0-1-Scott Frank- I was at the fight and Scott was not as bad as they say, very inexperienced but it was a Larry thumb in the eye that started things and it was a so so win
13-0 Ossie Ocasio- I know he managed to beat a full breasted Jimmy Young but lets face it Jaws had no teeth

His Best Defenses
and that leaves Shavers who he beat already and who always lost the big ones and some of the little ones and Shavers almost finished him. Good win coming off the floor but that right hand that put him there raises that RED flag

****ey, never went past 8 rds and void of a right hand but a good win

Best fighter he faced

Mike Spinks never fought as a heavyweight and Holmes Lost

Mike Tyson KO'd in 4

so while I recognize Holmes as an excellent fighter I wish he would have past the test of fighting some of these guys-Tate, Weaver,Coetzee,Dokes,Thomas,Page when the window of opportunity was there and it was. The true Champ fights all comers and contenders and pretenders like Ali, Marciano, Louis did and rematches tough fights like Norton,Weaver,Witherspoon and Williams

I dont hold them all against him and sorry if I am redundant I just dont see how some of this does not reflect on the Holmes legacy on ESB

I know you are a smart guy with an open mind and I know there are reasons Larry could not fight them all but he should have and could have fought at least 4 of the 2 groups and with one Weaver unification would have solved 2 of those problems.....I will not post about Holmes again I like Larry, I have been to party's with him a I TOLD HIM HE SHOULD UNIFY but I can not put him in my top 5 based on speculation alone.

sorry if I was redundant :good