Do you love Muhammad Ali? If so why so and if not why not?

I liked him in the ring, who doesnt? But I cant understand why he was so loved for ridiculing his opponents, the way he treated Frazier was disgusting, I know he showed him respect later on but he should have given him more respect after he beat him in the first fight. It seemed every time he spoke about Frazier it was a backhanded compliment and I cant stand that. It endeared me to the more down to earth Frazier.

 

I hear that, and I think we'd be missing a point if we didn't acknowledge that Ali's fame, fortune, idolatry, went to his head a little. But maybe no more than a rock 'n roll idol. A thin line I would think between the clowning and the chest pounding theatrics to ridiculing an opponent. I think he was a complex guy, an assortment of pluses and minuses.

 

Many of his 70's efforts bore the crap out of me. He reverted to the role of entertainer too often and was one of the most blatant rulebreakers in the history of the division. Much to the over-awed judges, he would endure a merciless beating for 2 and 1/2 minutes then let fly a not-so-fast-any-longer combo of pitty pat punches and mug for the judges as though he won the round. Neither compelling entertainment nor compelling boxing, in my opinion.

 

I loved his character..he was entertaining

 

This is obviously true. But by that time his persona was in the ring with him. I just don't think he had the legs after a certain point. When he pulled it off, it could be all the more amazing, and people could say, "Damn, this guy really does walk on water." It's probably also true that the refs and the judges were caught up in his celebrity too, and I'm sure he got some breaks and won some rounds others wouldn't have.

 

at the end of the day, ali loved meeting and entertaining people and the majority of people in return loved him. his boxing style was original for the time cuz no one had seen a heavyweight move that fast like a lightweight around the ring. many first thought that he couldn't win against the best with his light punches and that he wouldn't be able to take good shots. he liked proving them wrong. he was the most self-confident boxer of all time and sometimes that annoys the hell outta people. his fast moving lightweight style was unique to the heavyweight division and people could relate to him as here was someone different but great to watch with unorthadox skills - he was a dancer in the ring and he danced to a different tune in the heavyweight division especially in the 1960s.

 

Power puncher said it the best.

Everyone who sits hear and talks about his association to a hate group rather than seeing what he did in the moments, where he came from, and he how generally carried himself. Obviously he didn't believe that all whites were the devil and that they were "inferior." But the Nation of Islam impacted Ali, and for someone who was looking for a reason to be upset about a situation it would a be a bold athlete/star.

Everybody has different reactions to racial injustices. I don't agree with Ali and think he was wrong on a lot of things but I do feel that this is Ali holding a natural defensive reactionary position. I can't defend the man entirely. However, to simply just label him a racist when he belonged to a complex and unjust environment would be oversimplifying things to say the least. Things are far more complex then that.

Firstly, I'm not turning criticism into hate. You don't have to tell me what others think of you. I have an independent mind and thought to form my own views. I know from previous discussions that you think Ali was racist and poorly treated fighters. I can't deny everything. But I do know that you have a lack of understanding about the situation in which this man came up in. And it's not surprising especially when knowing your not American. Why can't you take my criticism of you about criticizing him? That's the irony of this. Look, I just don't think we CAN HONESTLY put ourselves in his shoes with his mind. I know I'd have a strong reactionary position with the injustices and racism I would have to deal with. Ali got over caught up in it with the Nation of Islam. I don't believe he believed everything. He think he got the message. The message to the Black Man. And in that message dealt with factual truths. It all gets carried away with misplaced hate and kookiness from Elijiah. However, have you seen Ali treat or carry himself with that belief on his shoulders? Did he wrongly treat whites? Anymore wrongly then the way he was treated by them? Once you ask those questions, then you understanding the perspective far more. Your lack of understanding to his perspective, position, and roots is obvious... just as obvious as Ali's flaws. The subtle negative tone you have when talking about him is obvious. You being non-American while holding such a simple view on the main is something I can understand more as well. :good You saying the Muslim thing was complete bull**** is complete bull**** and completely wrong for you to do from your arm-chair. All these critics I can tell do not come from America. Have no clue on American racial relations and have zero understanding of the Vietnam 60's/70's culture and therefore do not understand the context.

 

This is a good analysis.

Ali obviously saw his religeon as empowering black people and the issue of him saying "I am prety" is not something I had thought of before. Even today one of the big things of white supremacists is trying to portray black people as being ugly.

Some of the atitudes he expoused were prety obnoxious, but he was basicaly a nice kid who fell under the spell of a group of crazies who took all his money.

 

That's exactly what I think of Ali.

 

:rofl