Do you support the idea of the unbeatable h2h fighters?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Big Ukrainian, Jul 31, 2018.


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  1. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't support it at all. Even if we take fighters only at their peak.

    I believe that if we match, say, top-20 HWs of all time against each other at their peak, the best of the best, no one would have less than 3 losses.

    There are few reasons for that

    1) Styles. If we take Ali who is considered by many as the best h2h HW of all time, he had his stylistic nightmare Ken Norton which he couldn't beat convincingly at least once in 3 fights. Every fighter has wrong styles to deal with.

    2) Neither fighter in history isn't 'head and shoulders' above all the others. Every fighter has his flaws which would definitely be exposed if he's matched against the best in history, even if he's one of them.

    3) Fighters DO make mistakes even at their peak. Even the best fighter at his peak can make wrong decisions in the fight, or just get careless, and pay for it.

    Therefore I have no doubts that any given ATG fighter would've had his fair share of losses if he was matched in the line against the best in history, no matter how 'peak', how strong, how talented he is.
     
    Big Ukrainian, Jul 31, 2018
    Big Ukrainian, Jul 31, 2018
    #1
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  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Nobody is unbeatable.
     
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2018
    mcvey, Jul 31, 2018
    #2
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  3. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I don't buy it either, all the greats had poor performances, and lesser fighters can overperform, especially if they have a gameplan that can work to their opponents weaknesses.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Jul 31, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti, Jul 31, 2018
    #3
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  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Not really, but I do think its possible for a great fighter to win 60 or more fights in a row, or defend his belt 20 times or more. In the end father time is undefeated.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2018
    Mendoza, Jul 31, 2018
    #4
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Nobody is unbeatable.

    I believe in one off fantasy fights you can favour one many over any other, but in this instance you have to consider synergy.

    I favour Jones Jr over every LHW who came before and after but I wouldn't favour him to emerge from a gauntlet of greats unbeaten.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 31, 2018
    lufcrazy, Jul 31, 2018
    #5
  6. The Professor

    The Professor Socialist Ring Leader Staff Member

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    Not at all. If this were true, upsets would never happen.
     
    The Professor, Jul 31, 2018
    The Professor, Jul 31, 2018
    #6
  7. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree
     
    AlFrancis, Jul 31, 2018
    AlFrancis, Jul 31, 2018
    #7
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  8. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Lol sonny liston is the h2h superman but curiously he never showed it in the real world. Pathetic
     
    Combatesdeboxeo_, Jul 31, 2018
    Combatesdeboxeo_, Jul 31, 2018
    #8
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  9. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    The problem is that some fans seem to view these guys as super heroes instead of as athletes competing in a high-risk sport against other top athletes, subject to injuries and ailments, distractions, bad reffing and judging, and, especially, plain bad luck, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 31, 2018
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 31, 2018
    #9
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  10. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In debate on speculative H2H scenarios, we reason for the likelihood of the outcome, applied under optimum conditions and to what are sometimes very fine lines.

    However, in practice, a 19-fight series against competitors, who are hard to separate in terms of their respective abilities, is almost certainly going to lead to mixed results. This too is speculation, of course, and follows the same type of reasoning of likelihood.
     
    Man_Machine, Jul 31, 2018
    Man_Machine, Jul 31, 2018
    #10
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  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    No.

    If you give me your top 20 heavyweights of all time, then your number 20 would probably have a chance against your number 1, unless your number 1 had a big stylistic advantage (say it was Joe Louis vs Floyd Patterson).
     
    janitor, Jul 31, 2018
    janitor, Jul 31, 2018
    #11
  12. thesnowman22

    thesnowman22 Member Full Member

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    When we discuss "who would win", we are really discussing who wins the majority of the time. So even if you "win" the h2h match up, it really just means youd win >50%.

    "Noone could beat Tyson in his prime" for example.
    Well of course someone COULD. But who would beat him more than 50%? Everyone CAN be beat.
     
    thesnowman22, Jul 31, 2018
    thesnowman22, Jul 31, 2018
    #12
  13. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Lol foreman,holyfield,Ali,Lewis ?
     
    Combatesdeboxeo_, Jul 31, 2018
    Combatesdeboxeo_, Jul 31, 2018
    #13
  14. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Everyone is beatable.
     
    OvidsExile, Jul 31, 2018
    OvidsExile, Jul 31, 2018
    #14
  15. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    49-0.
     
    Seamus, Jul 31, 2018
    Seamus, Jul 31, 2018
    #15
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