Do you think Calzaghe's legacy will improve or decline over time?

I really dont think i have.........im not pickin on Calzaghe per se......but he is the most obvious.

Gazoc.........im guessing you became a fan of boxing becuase you wanted to see men fight? As barbaric as some of the academics will call it.....this appeals to our inate agression, animal instinct.

Yes we live in a society where we have made rules that have a logical base............so creating weight divisions in boxing is fine by me but NOT when we start to lose ourselves in the HYPE.

This thread is started on the premise that Calzaghe is some sort of boxing/fighting legend......and he isnt........i know we can differ but i believe the real reason we DIFFER is becuase fighters like him get away with making a carrer bases on smoke and mirros.......are you gonna call me a legend if i take on Muhammed Ali and knock him out in 10 seconds?

NO!........yes that is an extreme viewpoint.......but then im not a pro fighter...........so fighting has beens or people that use to be good and then adding them on your ledger is not exactly boding well for boxing.

Anyhow......Calzaghe will be boosted by the fact that i think Mr Kessler will win this tournement then we are gonna get all the little kids coming out saying Calzaghe the greatest, Calzaghe would beat B. Foster, J. Toney and Rocky Marciano.

 

What you don't seem to realise is you just replaced Paul Williams with Ricky Hatton as the strongest and biggest man in the division that everybody else has an uphill task to beat before skill even comes into the equation.

Why would I need to argue for Eddie Chambers or Chris Byrd? Both could have made cruiser if they so desired, they chose to be at disadvantage compared to big heavyweights. That's not the same as the system handicapping them.

Pacquiao is an exceptional fighter, they come along now and again. Henry Armstrong did it back in the day. There are countless examples of fighters that havn't been successful through multiple weight classes, does that prove the point the current system is right?

You are taking the football comparison too far and its starting to get weird. That's not a fighting sport, they all have a ball and two legs.

 

In fact i really hope someone backs me up here...........the argument thats its unfair for lopez to fight Sanchez....so ****ing what.

Is not unfair for C. Byrd having to fight Vitali?

 

I'd rather see competitve fights rather than size/ weight be the sole deciding factor as it would the way you seem to want it.

Your making analogies with football, basketball that just don't hold up. They are different sports.

 

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Judging by your weak argument and analysis so far on this thread, I know far more about that division and those fighters than you.

Anyway, first off, let me make my position clear. Ricardo Lopez was a superior fighter to Joe Calzaghe, not a doubt in my mind. That is my personal perception from seeing every one of Joe's world title fights, and a good number of Finito's.

However, my initial post was focusing on resume, not ability. I believe that fighters are remembered more for who they fought and what the results were in those big-name fights, not how talented they were.

For instance, how many people nowadays have great knowledge of the career of Jung Koo Chang? By comparison from the same era, how many people nowadays have great knowledge of the career of Iran Barkley? Barkley fought Hearns, Duran, Benn, Toney, etc. Opponents of that profile were not available for JKC. Therefore, you ask many guys in the General to give you their top 50 fighters of the 80s or something like that, and I bet more include Barkley than include JKC, despite JKC being obviously a vastly superior fighter in terms of ability. Ability does not always equal legacy, but resume does IMO.

Sorjatorung beat a well past-prime Chiquita and you know it, he wasn't even as proven as Kessler, and obviously nowhere near the same level as even a clearly past-prime Hopkins.

Rosendo Alvarez was a very, very good fighter, perhaps the Kessler equivalent in the straw-weights, but again that leaves Calzaghe's feat of making a close fight with a past-prime but still top quality Hopkins unsurpassed by Finito.

The rest of their resumes are roughly comparable - for the list you posted for Lopez, read Lacy, past-prime Eubank, Woodhall, Reid, etc. Some of the best available in a weak division.

I think it comes down to Lopez didn't fight the two best of his era (Carbajal and Gonzalez) - the reasons are irrelevant, you simply can't give a guy credit for fights that didn't happen, it's not as if in 50 years time people will care who should've done more to make it happen, the fact in the history books will be that it did not happen - and Calzaghe did not fight the two best of his era (Jones & Hopkins) when he could've or should've, but the fight with Hopkins was made before it could be considered meaningless (as the Jones win was).

Lopez was better in terms of ability, Calzaghe has the stronger resume, therefore IMO Calzaghe's (pretty weak but still slightly better) resume means he will probably be ranked slightly higher as time passes and the names on the record are all that remains.

:good

 

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Chris Byrd was a middleweight as an amateur and made 175lbs when he was an old man at the tail end of his career. That ought to tell you Byrd made a career decision, nobody forced him to be handicapped. Your system is the one that forces that.

Joe Frazier could have been a cruiserweight under the current system but that option was not available to him at the start of his career. Under your system he is fighting anybody from a light heavyweight size right up to heavyweights, the gap is actually larger, so while you were trying to sarcastically score a point it only weakened your argument.

 

Analogies should at least be valid, you can't just pick 2 sports at random and it mean the analogy is reasonable.

Saying boxing should have fewer weight divisions because basketball doesn't have a seperate league for players under 6'2" is like saying boxing doesn't should have linesmen like soccer does. Pointless.

If you have a problem with boxers/ promoters ducking challenges and cherrypicking opponents then thats one thing most people agree with but answer isn't to have 15 and 20lb differences inbetween weight classes or to pull down fighters because they would have struggled in some imaginary new system of weight classes a guy off the internet came up with.

You can wriggle around comparing football, basketball and God knows what else with boxing but the bottom line is that its generally too much weight for fighters to give away and remain competitve.

 

Boys see what you want to see, if you both believe Joe Calzaghe carrer was stuff of all times greats.........then believe it.

 

His career wasn't the stuff of a TRUE ATG, for that he would have had to fight Hopkins when he was king of the middleweight division and also stepped up and fought Jones. They were the 2 superstars around his weight division that could've transformed him, I don't think anyone else in his reign could have made him a true ATG.

However there are a lot of fighters considered ATG's who have less of a case than Joe, perhaps not TRUE ATG's but fighters a lot of people would have in there top 100.

 

If Kessler wins the Super 6 & smashes everyone to pieces for the next 10 years, then, in 30-40 years time alot of people will pool Jones Jr/Hopkins/Kesslers achievments together more than likely & assume Joe beat 3 prime ATG's.

I believe the names on his resume mean his legacy is only going to improve over time, as people forget the specifics.

 

So many flaws in this.

Does Khan beating Barrera somehow prove he is great?

The mere fact that his promoter/backers didnt chose Prescott and then he failed showed that smoke and mirrors are used in boxing to hide the truth.

Calzaghe beating Kessler showed he was a good fighter......but one performance against a relativly prime fighter dosent equate to greatness.

I mean i can think of the top of my hat fighters Joe would have beat who competed around his weight class at various points in there carrer.

Hagler
SS. Leonard
J. Toney
R. Jones
E. Charles
B. Foster
C. Monzon

thats just 7 off the top of my head

 

But Barrera will look a hell of alot better on Kahn's resume in 30 years.