Do you think Frazier could have beat Vitali or Wladmir?

A very articulate post....I can't disagree.

 

I say that Frazier definitely beats Vlad and that he probably beats Vitali. The difference in durability between the brothers is a big factor in these fights.

Ironically, even though Vitali would have much more of a chance against Frazier than Vlad, of the two brothers, Vlad would probably inflict more damage on Frazier. This is because Vlad is a more dangerous puncher than Vitali.

Against Vlad, Frazier would take some mean right hands and he might be knocked down once or twice. Vlad could have hurt Frazier. But I envision Joe arising from the knockdowns and pressing a torrid inside attack that Vlad cannot resist for reasons of style and durability. Frazier would probably finish Vlad off between the fourth and seventh rounds. I think Vlad would probably take the full count.

Vitali would definitely last much longer against Frazier than Vlad, and he'd take less punishment. I envision Vitali possibly going the distance with Joe and losing a decision. Another possibility is that Frazier finishes off a tired Vitali very late in the fight, with Frazier's left hook being the decisive blow. Vitali would have given Frazier trouble because of his height, durability and awkward style, but eventually Frazier would assume the upper hand in the fight and he'd be leading on points at the knockout or the final bell.

 

I think he would beat both decision over Vitali and mid round stoppage over Wlad.

 

Smokin' Joe could hardly handle the plodding ox Oscar Bonavena. The Klitschkos have great leverage and confidence and would repeatedly expose the Jamaican for his c-r-a-p-p-y chin. He was like a fast moving Sam Peter with no skill and no chin------------Absolutely Not

 

Tyson was shot v.s. Lewis and Tua was a fat, one punch at a time plodder v.s. Lennox ... in addition, Wlad is not Lennox ...

Sam Peter, maybe 6' himself, almost had Wlad beat. Frazier was a murderous puncher. If not a one punch KO artist he was a two punch KO artist. Ali and Foreman have both said this on the record. In addition, Frazier was so much quicker than Peter threw so many more punches ... He definately crushes the china chinned Wlad ... again, the older brother is made of sterner stuff and would last longer but his stamina has always been a question when pushed and I feel Frazier pounds him out over 15 rounds.

Chris' point about holding is a good one and who the ref would be would have a major impact as it did in the second Ali fight.

 

No.

 

Huh ?

Frazier is by no means a murderous puncher...........his only reaL punch is the left hook and both Tyson /Tua hit way harder with it. While he is more technical sound and has more snap in his punches than Peter he is no match for Peters pure strengh, not even close. Foreman bounced /pushedFrazier around like a little kid, he will not do the same to Peter. Would Foreman beat Peter ? Sure, but it would take a lot longer to stomp him in the ground than it took him to crush Frazier.

VK has stamina issues ? Since when ? Because he fights with a open mouth as early as the second round ? Thats just a habit I guess because I have never ever seen him gassed or significantly reducing his punchout put/workrate due to stamina. Even in the heavy action Lewis fight Lewis fell on his chair not VK.

I recommend some of the posters to actually go to a gym and watch some sparring...............yeah it all looks so easy to beat a big skilled man with a terrific jab and a fight ending right behind, lol, lol, once you realise you have to go thru this 80 + inch jab/reach kill zone to deliver your shots things change in a heartbeat.

I am absolutly convinced Frazier WILL NOT take those shots both Klitchkos landed on Peter or VK administered to Sanders or Williams. So him simply walking thru, getting k'down and simply shaking it off are absurd.

He can beat WK if he crowd/bumrushes him and the younger Klitchko panics but he will not survive if WK keeps him at the end of his jab.

As far as VK is concerned, no 205 pound fighter, I don't care how good he is , is going toe to toe with VK and that is exactly what Frazier would need to do to win............ain't happening.

 

Excellent post. There seems to be a real disconnect here between the reality of fighting a very good big man with speed, and skills and fighting a big man with limited speed and skills. I have been saying this for years.

The Klitschko's are not Jess Willard or Buddy Bear. Since the inception of skilled " super heavies " with power…( Bowe, Lewis, and both Klitschko's ) the top heavyweight spot has gone to a very skilled big man. Where are the 205 pounders? They are almost extinct as legit top 5 heavyweight talents, and I do not expect this to change anytime soon. 30-40 years before that, men like Liston, Ali, Foreman, and Holmes enjoyed a big time size advantage for the most part.

Don’t get me wrong, a 205 pounder can beat a 250 pounder. These are heavies, but he’s going to need great power. Great power alone can win any fight. A top chin, excellent skills and speed are also needed to compensate for the lack of size, weight, and striking distance too.

Basically, Frazier is giving up 40+ pounds in weight, 7” in reach, and 6-7” in height here. He does not have great one punch power, and is questionable in the chin department, and limited in terms of variety on offense.

Frazier fans should watch the full version of the Buster Mathis fight. Mathis was big—about 20 pounds over weight, yet he was actually ahead of Frazier until round seven, then his extra weight, and Frazier’s pressure cost him until the fight ended in round 11. This was a prime Frazier, so there you have it, Frazier struggled vs a tier two big man contender.

 

Just a quick question, off topic.

How do you see a 205 pound Holyfield (The version that fought Bowe the first time) doing against Vitali?

 

Well, Holyfield always blew hot and cold and the two skilled big men he met he ended on the losing end four times.. IMO without the fan man he would have lost the second Bowe fight too.

Holyfield fought way to much tit for tat with the bigger fighters and did not have enough firepower to scare them off. Even old geezers like Foreman and Holmes did not respect his power. Most heavyweights can crack but he never was known for devasting punching power, he attributes were stubbornness, pride, great counterpuching abilities, athletism and the willingness to do almost anything aka slick fouls.

Bowe was a superior infighter than Vk but he beat Holyfield on the outside as well in their first fight but ultimatly Holyfield tendency to brawl with a significantly bigger guy (see tit for tat above) was his undoing. I see a similar outcome if you repLace Bowe with VK, UD , I don't think Holy would get stopped.

Bowe and Holyfield are emotional not thinking fighters in a sense, can they adjust and overcome adversety , sure, but they feed off from their emotions.
VK and Lewis are , what I would call calculating "smart" fighters who take more of a chessmatch approach to impose their will on their opponents.

I don't really know what to make of Holyfield, he got a lot of miles from beating a no longer interested in the fight game Tyson but otherwise.......

 

frazier makes the klits fight every second of every round and stops them in around 9 rounds the same way brewster did..

 

I'd favor Frazier over Vitali.

Paws way too much with his jab. If a prime Frazier can bob, weave and get under Ali's lightning fast jabs Vitali is going to get hooked to death.

Vitali's ultra durable... But how does he take it to the body? What's going to stop Frazier from making him take a knee like he did Buger and Quarry?

Vitali's stamina has always been iffy as well. Not poor, but he's definitely tired and doesn't fight at the measured pace of Wladimir.

 

Frazier was extremely close to Mathis outside of the ring. He wasn't anything approaching the hell bent demon walk through fire fighter that he was against Ali.

 

tough fights for Smoking Joe, Frazier was fast with his double hook but left himself open....The Frazier of Ali 1 could survive early vs Vlad and put pressure on but any other version of Frazier would lose to both men...Hard styles for Frazier but he has a punchers chance to hurt Vlad somwhere and start an avalanche stiill he has to overcome the jab and strait right not to mention the hook and the Vlad of NOW has very good movement behind the jab....Vitali with his awkward style would control the fight....Klitschko's hard opponents

 

The K-brothers are just too big and strong for frazier and they would keep him at a distance and break him quickly...for the TKO!