Do you think Frazier vs Ali really did end up as Fight of the Century?

Maybe.

Marciano Walcott I or the Marciano Charles fights
Louis Conn
Dempsey Firpo
Robinson Basilio 1
Zale Graziano
ete

History has so many epic fights, I am not sure Ali Frazier 1 is the defind number 1 but it has an argument.

 

Angry Birds, I thought it was an intriguing fight, Joe Frazier won the battle fair and square. What if Frazier had not had a shrewd manager and trainer in Yank Durham who worked with Eddie Futch? It was Durham who would not allow Frazier to challenge a peak Muhammad Ali for the title in 1967. Like I posted before, in an article of our local sports page dated, July 10 1967, Ali poked fun at Frazier, saying that Durham was smart by not allowing Frazier in the ring with him. Durham and Futch knew that Ali may soon be locked up in prison for his Draft Evasion conviction, and may also lose his title and boxing license, convicted criminals are not allowed any kind of sporting license. When Ali returned on Oct 26 1970 against Jerry Quarry, Ali had not been in the ring since March 22 1967 since his title defense against Zora Folley. Ali no longer had all of his physical gifts, he was rusty as a gate. Ali no longer had his legs, stamina, and reflexes, he did retain some speed, he was vulnerable. When Ali fought champion Frazier on March 8 1971, he missed a lot of shots, he tired after a few rounds, he easily got tagged, he began to lay on the ropes, the 1967 Ali was sharp, he could move for 15 rounds if need be. Ali had only 18 rounds in 43 months away from the ring before that Fight Of The Century won by Joe Frazier. I am not one to fall for conspiracy theories but politics had something to do with that fight, the popularity of the war in Vietnam was fading whereas in 1967 it was going strong, President Johnson really pushed his agenda for that war.

 

Do you mean in terms of excitement or in terms of the greatness of the boxers in the fight?

Excitement = Bazooka Limon vs Bobby Chacon IV. There are 4 or 5 fights that come close to this but I think this is the most exciting and rewatchable fight I've ever seen.

Greatness = Ray Robinson vs Henry Armstrong if you don't care that Armstrong wasn't in his prime (He was still extremely good tho with a 7 fight win streak including wins over Sammy Angott and Willie Joyce.)

Greatness = If you want both to be at their prime then its Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran 1.

 

Though an opportunist Durham was looking out for his fighter, Frazier was still somewhat green and had his shakeup with Bonavena by that time so you could also look at it that he wanted to prepare his fighter as much as possible. Durham was also smart enough to advise Frazier to retire after FOTC and not face Foreman. Disregarding exile, I think 69/70 may have been the perfect timeframe of both fighters matched as evenly as possible.

I definitely thought it lived up to it, people still consider the FOTC version of Ali to be solid and proof of that it is him defeating strong opponents in Quarry and Bonavena. The only other fights I could consider, but not on the same level are Johnson vs Jeffries and Louis vs Schmeling II.

 

YES.

What other fight had these elements:

2 undefeated champions at or near the peak of their powers (Ali declined in speed, endurance & sharpness but still great & with more power & maybe even chin).

An incredible drama behind the scenes re: the politics & Ali's long, oppressive ban ended by an 8-0 decision by the highest court in the land.

The personal drama between them, with Ali cruelly betraying Frazier, who lobbied for his license back even with Nixon & gave him money when in exile.

A tremendous promoter in Ali.
Also it generated more American, general, celebrity & international interest & attention than almost any fight.

And crucially, an extremely competitive fight with changes in momentum & fought at the highest level.

All at the marquee division, where the best head to head fighters reside, HW.

To me it eclipses either Louis-Schmelling, since that one was mainly politics & ideology, not with all the other sociological & fisticuff story lines & competitive excellence by both parties!

 

I cannot consider Johnson vs Jeffires or Louis vs Schmeling II FOTC worthy since they turn out to be one sided slaughters. They have their place history wise and all that, but for being the best fight from 1900-2000??? I can not pic a 1 round blow out being up there in the debate.

 

It ticked every box to warrant it being anticipated as the FOTC. Then it actually delivered and some might say even exceeded expectations.

Rightly or wrongly it seems the tag of FOTC is generally reserved for matches between the very best of the biggest men - the HWs.

One possible argument for the near exclusive rights to the title of FOTC being that they (HWs) would dominate, in absolute terms, the very best of all the weight divisions below them.

Of course there is nothing to preclude one considering a lower weight division match as being considered worthy of the label FOTC.

For some it might stand to reason, in part, that the very best competing against one another at the lower weights will more likely display greater P4P skills and which might then translate to a greater fight altogether.

I do remember some boxing pundits likening Pryor vs Arguello I to The Thrilla In Manila but with sized down combatants.

Frazier vs Ali 1 was amazing. You could not want for better action or greater competitive dynamic.

If there were any noticeable lulls for either man, they might be attributed more to Ali - highly understandable in view of the 3.5 year layoff with Ali only in his 3rd fight back in - and they weren’t significant - certainly they didn’t negate any of the incredible action provided otherwise.

 

Undoubtably a contender for that accolade. Certainly the biggest HEAVYWEIGHT bout ever. Definitely in terms of turning on the biggest cross section of people Even non boxing fans had a view on it.

 

Either that one or Fight III fit the bill to me!

 

Yes is certainly is the FOTC. The fight itself was one of the greatest in history. The event and all the things involved made it much more than a boxing match.

Ali is the main reason for it being so big. All the intrigue around his draft situation, his religion etc. Ali was the greatest showmen in the history of the game or sports.

They stopped the war over in Ireland becausethe fight was coming on. That's pretty amazing.

 

Louis/Schmeling 2 is the only one that is in the zipcode as far as meaning attached to it. The fight itself didn't live up to it.

 

Been watching boxing since 1963-1964. It's been the biggest fight in my lifetime...nothing has been bigger. No real hype needed to sell this one!!! People who didn't follow the fight game knew about this one! After it was over...all of the TV networks broke in with the results! Saw it closed circuit that night with my father in '71...the anticipation was amazing! All theaters were sold out. The Mutual Radio Network had 2 reporters on the air to give you the blow by blow of the fight! Unlike today....there was none of the "Ali really won the fight" BS. Joe beat his ass...everyone...including Ali knew it! He couldn't do anything with Frazier that night! So...the "FOTC?"...Yeah....it was!!!

 

How do you define FOTC? Societal importance? Importance to the sport? Quality of the fight itself?

FOTC was easily FOTC when you talk about the importance to the sport -- TWO undefeated HW champions both with valid claims to the lineal title. When has that ever happened before?

Societal importance was probably Louis-Schmeling 2.

Quality of the fight -- highly doubtful. The "best" fight of the last century almost assuredly wasn't fought by HW's. For those who follow HW too closely to the detriment of the lighter weight classes, go watch some classic fights at 160 and below. The smaller guys are incredible. So skilled, so much stamina.